If a cop illegally spots marijuana growing in a house, can he get a warrant?

In Canada I am nearly certain that the cop would easily be able to obtain a warrant. Like others have mentioned, the reason is that the illegal activity was in plain view. Nothing special, usual, or illegal was required to detect the illegal activity. I don’t even see why a warrant would be needed (though, just to minimize legal complications, obviously one would be preferred). If the cop walks up to your door and can plainly see a grow-op through the window…

Lesson learned is: don’t do illegal things in plain view.

Oh, and because I just happened upon this today… basically, the cops can and will do anything they want. The courts may eventually strike down their summary judgments, but that doesn’t mean you don’t get screwed.

When I say, “in plain view” I meant it as in, the pot can only be seen by him using his telescope. For instance, you live on a wood edge and the only way he can see into the BACK of your house (absent walking up to your house and peeping Tom’ing into your windows) is to use his telescope.

Let’s also say that, his house is the only one around yours for miles. The plants are only in plain view within his telescope when he spots them and there is no other way to say he was using his telescope and accidentally saw them because your house is behind his view of the sky, so he would have to literally turn the telescope around and look into YOUR house illegally.

I know I should have said that, because as always with this site, every thing and every aspect of every question is nitpicked to death on here. The majority of you got what I was asking and I appreciate it. For the smart asses, why didn’t I say that to begin with? Well, I should not have to write a book and cover every single base to suit you. :slight_smile:

It’s not clear that that matters. If the cop wasn’t trespassing anything he can see with a telescope (or binoculars) appears to be fair game. I don’t think he needs to come up with much of a reason, but of course, IANAL.

From the same link below:

But you’re assuming that this is illegal. What’s the basis for saying this is illegal conduct by the officer?

I don’t know if I agree with the general consensus of the posters. There is a slim chancer your going to “accidentally” look into a house while stargazing with a Telescope. You would have to be snooping, which seems like invading a persons privacy. I think it would depend on the judge issuing the warrent; and the judge hearing the case might turn it over if issued. I think it is definatly inveading a person’s privacey.

I have a telescope, and have used it now and again. Even if your stargazing at a low object, say Venus; while focusing, if you came across a house, you would clear away, and re- acquire your target. If you see the house and decide to look in anyway, that is snooping, and an invasion of privacy IMOHO.

it may be snooping, but is it illegal? that has to be the initial stage of the legal analysis to answer the OP’s question.

Something can be illegal because it violates international law, the Constitution, a federal law, a state constitution, a state or local law, or because it makes the actor subject to civil liability. Most posters have addressed themselves to the US Constitution, since this is a hypothetical not about any particular jurisdiction.

Using a telescope to look for evidence of illegal activity in a person’s house from an area where the officer is legally allowed to be is entirely constitutional under the US Constitution. That’s not opinion; it is clear from the case law. It could in theory violate one of the other sources of law mentioned–most likely a state constitution or a state privacy law. Some states have invasion of privacy laws that can be used against people like paparazzi, but usually not in this kind of scenario, and I would guess that they all contain exceptions for law enforcement. Alaska’s constitution has a privacy section, so there may be additional protections in that state as well.

In states without medical marijuana laws, he most certainly could get a warrant upon this information. In a state where growing was legal under some circumstances, it could conceivably be more complicated. In California, there’s a sort of dual regime. If you’re properly registered, you’re supposed to be free from arrest or seizure, which presumably also means freedom from searches based on belief that you’re growing. You can also avoid conviction (but not arrest/seizure) even if you’re not registered if you have the proper documents from a doctor. I would guess that a cop has to check the registration database before obtaining a warrant upon seeing a marijuana plant, but I’m not sure.

IANAL, but I think that what he was doing was not illegal. The cop, that is. I read somewhere, don’t remember, but if anybody has binoculars, they can look through any windows, and not get into trouble, as long as they are within the confines of their own house (property?). Don’t know how this ties into the ‘without technology’ biz, tho.

greatshakes

I’m pretty sure he could get the warrant. I’d go so far as to say that he could even sneek into your back yard and peek in through the windows to spot the plants. I recently caught a neighbor - who had an extensive criminal background for petty theft/trespassing and was well known to the police - sneaking around my back yard peeking in the windows (he ran back to his house when he saw me). I called the cops, told them what he was doing, where he was, and was sure they’d take him away for tresspassing/prowling. Instead they shrugged their shoulders and said they couldn’t do anything.

Their reasoning was that they couldn’t prove criminal intent and therefore couldn’t get him for trespassing on private property. They also couldn’t get him for prowling because they said that law was intended to stop peeping toms/sex offenders. So apparently you can sneak around private property all you want as long as you can come up with a reasonable story as to why you are there. So, the cop could simply claim he’d been tipped by someone that there was a drug dealer living nearby him, that he was concerned for the safety of his family and went in for a quick look… maybe he knocked on the door and no one answered, took a walk around back, and low and behold he saw all this illegal stuff through the window. Maybe his actions weren’t the best options available, but they were still reasonable.

It’s not actually clear that the ruling “hinged” on the technology not being publicly available. What the court said was, “We think that obtaining by sense-enhancing technology any information regarding the interior of the home that could not otherwise have been obtained without physical “intrusion into a constitutionally protected area,” Silverman, 365 U. S., at 512, constitutes a search–at least where (as here) the technology in question is not in general public use. This assures preservation of that degree of privacy against government that existed when the Fourth Amendment was adopted.”

They left open the question of whether use of publicly available technology is a different story.

Of course, the Court had already suggested in *dicta * way back in 1952 “The use of bifocals, field glasses or the telescope to magnify the object of a witness’ vision is not a forbidden search or seizure, even if they focus without his knowledge or consent upon what one supposes to be private indiscretions.” On Lee v. United States, 343 U.S. 747, 754, 72 S.Ct. 967, 972, 96 L.Ed. 1270, 1276 (1952).

Here is part of a New Jersey case that tries to harmonize the pre-*kyllo *cases:

State v. Citta, 265 N.J. Super. 208; 625 A.2d 1162; 1990 N.J. Super. LEXIS 520 (N.J. Super. Ct. 1990)

Assuming the cop goes to a magistrate and says, “I spotted pot plants in this guy’s house with my telescope, can I have a warrant?” and assuming that it’s actually illegal, the magistrate shouldn’t issue the warrant.* E.g., *http://www.state.ok.us/~oids/coca/CannonWP-KuenstlerGC.pdf

If the magistrate knew the facts and issued the warrant anyway, evidence seized in good faith reliance on the warrant, though the warrant was invalid, would probably be admissible. E.g., United States v. Leon, 468 U.S. 897 (1984) http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0468_0897_ZO.html

Of course some jurisdictions do not apply Leon’s good faith exception: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:20e8dhhjQa8J:caselaw.findlaw.com/data2/indianastatecases/app/04110003.mgr.doc+warrant+issued+based+on+illegally+seized+evidence&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

And see, http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/2990983.txt

From the example you provide, the court seems to be is saying back yards are ok, not the interior of one’s home; as in the OP’s scenario.

And:

I sumit a telescope into the interior of a house, will probaly be ruled an invasion of privacy.

A telescope from a public location would not constitute an intrusion into a constitutionally protected area…Would it? OP indicates the marijuana plants are in view from the windows, as is the guy smoking pot from his couch.

ETA: By definition it seems to me anything in view from the window could be obtained by a means other than a physical intrusion into the constitutionally protected area.

All of which would be relevant if “invasion of privacy” was a constitutionally impermissible conduct. :smack:

The issue is whether the search is unreasonable. There is no case on point, and despite Richard Parker’s bland assurance that the holding in Kyllo is controlling, that is not necessarily the case. Indeed, I would argue that Kyllo is entirely inapposite to the case posited by the OP.

While relying on headnotes and summaries is always fraught with danger, I will quote here the official holding from the summary page of the decision in Kyllo:

The key difference is the part about “unknowable without physical intrusion.” Something you can see through a window is not “unknowable without physical intrusion.” So the issue of whether or not a telescope is “in general use” is a red herring. As Gfactor pointed out, the Court has yet to address whether or not the Kyllo rule would apply if you weren’t using fancy-dancy technical equipment, but rather something plain and ordinary like anyone has (say, laying your hand against the wall, or using an ordinary temperature probe like you have to test meat doneness). But who cares? We are looking through windows, not trying to see through walls.

We start with a simple basic scenario. A police officer, legally where he is, looks through your window with his plain eyes, and sees on your windowsill, a pot plant. Clearly, this is good enough.

Now, move the pot plant back into the interior of the house. The officer, still legally where he is, sees it on the dining room table, some 12 feet inside the house. Still good enough?

Now move the officer back. He can’t see into the house with his unaided eye any more, he needs binoculars or a telescope. He uses them. Still good enough?

The New Jersey court that Gfactor cites rejects the attempt to distinguish searches aided by technology from those which are not so aided. But it should be noted that some circuits of the federal bench were making that distinction, possibly (see, for example, the description of the Taborda case in the New Jersey opinion). I say possibly because we don’t have the actual exerpt from Taborda, and it may be the case that the court there was relying not on the use of a high-powered telescope, but rather the fact that this was used to peer into the interior of the house not otherwise seeable without physical intrusion. See how fun this gets?

The Supreme Court of the United States has suggested in dicta that using binoculars or a telescope to view into a home was not an “unreasonable search,” according to the cite offered by Gfactor. It is not apparent that the Court has since addressed this precise issue. We do not, therefore, have a conclusive answer on the subject, the assertion of Mr. Parker notwithstanding. And please be careful not to read too much into a state court decision, Melkor28.

Understood: According to the cite offered by Gfactor, a ruleing against useing a Telescope through a window.

And a ruleing for using a helo, looking into a back yard.

I understand presedent dosn’t always rule.

But so far all examples cited show a telescope through a window is an unreasonable search.
Let me give you an example: Your house is in a very rual neighborhood; the nearest house is 1/2 a mile away. You don’t bother too draw the blinds while having sex whith your wife, on a Sunday afternoon. Your neighbor sues for public lewednes, and corupting a minor; because his son saw you through a window faceing the back yard, with a Telescope. Will your neighbor win?

Again I say depending on the judge isuing the warrent, and the judge hearing the case you might have different ruleings. It’s just MOHOP that it will be a violation; in the OP’s scenario.

*Taborda *is an interesting case. In that case, the authorities got a search warrant based on two kinds of evidence: unaided visual surveillance and enhanced visual surveillance (using a “high-powered” telecscope).

635 F.2d 131, 134.

Id. at 134

The court recognized the early Supreme Court *dicta *, but noted that it was pre-Katz.

And then applied *Katz * to the visual surveillance:

Because the warrant was issued based on both kinds of evidence the court remanded the the case to permit the District Judge to determine whether the unaided visual evidence was sufficient to support a warrant.

The decision was 2-1, with Senior District Judge Dumbauld, who was sitting by designation, dissenting. His dissent:

See generally,
Observation through binoculars as constituting unreasonable search, 59 A.L.R.5th 615 (1998):

Interesting anecdote, and one that’s been stuck in my memory for a long time. Sometime in the very early 70’s, my aunt, uncle, and their two children were in Petrified Forest National Park in Arizona. They were hiking in an area about five miles away from a Ranger station, but in direct line-of-sight of it. My cousin, who was maybe fourteen years old or so at the time, picked up a piece of petrified wood about the size of a golf ball and stuck it in his pocket. A few minutes later, his consciousness got the better of him and he decided to return it to the place he took it from. When they got back to the Ranger station, a commissioned Ranger with a pair of binoculars around his neck approached them and said “your son is very fortunate that he put that rock back.”

Observation #1: Your argument will carry more weight if you utilize correct spelling.

Observation #2: Your argument will carry more weight if you offer analogies that are relevant, not to mention ones that offer a correct understanding of law.

Observation #3: I don’t necessarily disagree with you. But other than the Circuit Court of Appeals case in Taborda, it doesn’t look like we have much directly on point (possibly the Colorado case mentioned in the digest cited by Gfactor in his last post is on point, but it’s not abundantly clear that it is, since the digest says the case found that no actual “search” took place, a totally different issue). And I can almost guarantee you that an absolutist approach, such as taken by the two judges in Taborda, will not see the light of day at the Supreme Court, were the case to make it that far. :stuck_out_tongue:

To my way of thinking it may well come down to this: why the telescope? is it being used to see into the dim, dark recesses of the house, which would normally not be visible? or is it being used to overcome being somewhat obvious about what one is doing by watching from close range? or is there some other factor involved?

Sorry to hijack, but how in the heck do the rulings cited by Gfactor square with the use of drug sniffing dogs, particularly in a situation where a person is pulled over and there’s nothing immediately observable by police to suggest something illegal.

Am I wrong in understanding that when the police have a hunch they can detain that person for a vaguely defined “reasonable period of time,” until a drug-sniffing dog arrives, and if that dog arrives and alerts (according to the police handler) on the car, then they have probable cause to execute a search?

It seems obvious to me that a drug sniffing dog is an extraordinary technology or technique that certainly didn’t exist at the time of the writing of the Constitution that far surpasses the ability of “ordinary senses.” The vague scent of drugs detectable to drug-sniffing dogs seems no more a part of casual observation than the IR emissions being a part of normal vision by virtue of being a part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Also, if I really wanted to I know I could have an IR scanner by next Friday, but I’ll be damned if I know how to buy or borrow a drug-sniffing dog.