# If a friend pays a prostitute for another friend... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 16, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423 "2004-04-16T20:47:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/1 "2004-04-16T20:47:11Z")
Concerning the law. Does the person who paid get in trouble? What about the person that performed the sex acts? Or do both get caught up for it? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/2 "2004-04-16T20:59:53Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Concerning the law. Does the person who paid get in trouble? What about the person that performed the sex acts? Or do both get caught up for it? Is it reasonable to assume that a random woman off the street knocked on your door and desparately needed to have sex with you? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/3 "2004-04-16T21:03:51Z")
**drac** : It’s easy to imagine a more reasonable scenario. Like if the friend knew the guy was always at a certain singles bar looking for a date, and he paid the girl to be there and be easy. To answer the question, I think most crimes require a _mens rea_ before they’re prosecutable. That means you must _intend_ to commit the crime, as opposed to being tricked into it. August “Heh. ‘Tricked’.” Derleth ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/4 "2004-04-16T21:15:51Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Is it reasonable to assume that a random woman off the street knocked on your door and desparately needed to have sex with you? No, it’s not. But the friend is paying for relations for his friend, and not for himself. The person doing the acts technically didn’t pay, but is doing acts the prostitute was hired to do, for him. Let’s assume the cops witnessed this, who gets in trouble? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/5 "2004-04-16T21:16:05Z")
If it’s a simple non-convoluted scenario where your friend pays the prostitute, the second guy knows that what she is and goes through with it, IANAL, but my understanding of the law is that all three are guilty. The friend who pays most likely for soliciting. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/6 "2004-04-16T21:17:17Z")
Soliciting services, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/7 "2004-04-16T21:23:40Z")
Doesn’t the term ‘pandering’ fit into this conversation somehow? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/8 "2004-04-16T22:04:38Z")
In Virginia, “prostitution” is defined as committing adultery, fornication, or oral or anal sex for money or its equivalent. You must commit the sexual act to be guilty of the crime. Conspiracy is an agreement among two or more people to commit a crime. All three people in the OP’s scenario are guilty of the conspiracy. In general, conviction of the underlying crime bars a subsequent conviction for the conspiracy. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Cillasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Cillasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cillasi)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/9 "2004-04-16T22:07:21Z")
The person who procured the prostitute for his friend is guilty of pandering. The prostitute and the friend are guilty of whatever charges are applicable in the state. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/10 "2004-04-16T22:07:50Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Is it reasonable to assume that a random woman off the street knocked on your door and desparately needed to have sex with you? Are you calling Neil Bush a liar? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/11 "2004-04-16T23:47:27Z")
I read the criminal statutes and annotations in North Carolina from cover to cover one time. I’d say that the crime varies by state, but in NC, procuring a loose woman or paying someone else for a loose woman (not the exact wording) gets you a charge for pimping. The sentencing class for “pimping (again, not the precise term)” is such that the pimp is in exponentially more trouble than either the loose woman or the end user of the sexual services in question. Pimping was a low-grade felony or high-grade misdemeanor, whereas whoring or whoremongering were mid-grade misdemeanors. I’m sure out of 50 states, there are probably 20 different answers to your question. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/12 "2004-04-17T06:50:26Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Concerning the law. Does the person who paid get in trouble? What about the person that performed the sex acts? Or do both get caught up for it? Isn’t that the gist of how porno production is not considered prostitution? In other words, it’s not prostitution, because the neither of the people having sex are paying, instead someone else is paying them for sex. Seems to me that the only difference is that there’s(probably) no filming going on in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/13 "2004-04-17T07:07:31Z")
to have sex “on camera” with anyone who showed up that I would be “legal”. Since, I live out in the country, I can’t imagine any ordinances that would apply (however I’m only 30minutes from the city). What really gets me was that when I was younger (and not married) I had more than one occasion where a first date ended in sex. Why was it legal that the girl had sex with me because I bought her dinner and she thought I was “cute” (perhaps), while some of my other friends couldn’t get dates (either due to looks or more often shyness). How was my “promiscuity” which is so very common in America any MORE moral, or ethical than prostitution? All prosititution does is let the less attractive, or shy “get some” on a semi-regular basis. Those blessed with sufficent looks, or personality (or both) get for free (and without legal condemnation) what others would be willing to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/14 "2004-04-17T07:24:36Z")
How about the concept of ‘gift certificates’? A guy could buy gift certificates from a particular escort service, and give those certificates to his friend. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/15 "2004-04-17T09:52:48Z")
contacts (such as when I was an Real Estate Appraiser) could this be considered prostitution. Here’s how it might work. I approach various mortgage brokers, banking, and Real Estate executives and say something like "give me some of your appraisal business and not only will you get good appraisals, BUT you can sleep with my beautiful wife anytime that you like (subject to certain restrictions). I would benefit from more business, and she would benefit from a better sex life (considering I’m only good for about three minutes of passion a couple times per month!) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/16 "2004-04-17T11:14:08Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#): > > contacts (such as when I was an Real Estate Appraiser) could this be considered prostitution. Here’s how it might work. I approach various mortgage brokers, banking, and Real Estate executives and say something like "give me some of your appraisal business and not only will you get good appraisals, BUT you can sleep with my beautiful wife anytime that you like (subject to certain restrictions). I would benefit from more business, and she would benefit from a better sex life (considering I’m only good for about three minutes of passion a couple times per month!) > [@Bricker](#): > > In Virginia, “prostitution” is defined as committing adultery, fornication, or oral or anal sex **for money or its equivalent.** - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/17 "2004-04-17T11:23:04Z")
relationships outside of marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/18 "2004-04-17T15:41:48Z")
New York [Penal Law Article 230](http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=82&a=56) concerns prostitution offences. It has three groups of prostitution crimes, prostiution, patronizing a prostitute, and promoting prostitution. Section 230.00 provides: > [@](#): > > A person is guilty of prostitution when such person engages or agrees or offers to engage in sexual conduct with another person in return for a fee. Section 230.02 defines patronizing a prostitute as: > [@](#): > > (a) Pursuant to a prior understanding, he pays a fee to another person as compensation for such person or a third person having engaged in sexual conduct with him; or > (b) He pays or agrees to pay a fee to another person pursuant to an understanding that in return therefor such person or a third person will engage in sexual conduct with him; or > © He solicits or requests another person to engage in sexual conduct with him in return for a fee. Promoting prostitution includes both advancing prostitution and profiting from prostitution. Section 230.15 provides: > [@](#): > > 1. “Advance prostitution.” A person “advances prostitution” when, acting other than as a prostitute or as a patron thereof, he knowingly causes or aids a person to commit or engage in prostitution, procures or solicits patrons for prostitution, provides persons or premises for prostitution purposes, operates or assists in the operation of a house of prostitution or a prostitution enterprise, or engages in any other conduct designed to institute, aid or facilitate an act or enterprise of prostitution. So, in New York, if person A paid person B to have sex with person C, person A would be guilty of promoting prostitution, person B guilty of prostitution and person C guilty of nothing (unless person C gave something of value to start this whole arrangement, in which he or she might be guilty of patronizing a prostitute). ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/19 "2004-04-17T16:27:30Z")
Going by NY law, person C would probably get canned too (…aid or facilitate an act…). He didn’t pay, but is in on the act, which was paid for, which is illegal. Thanks all. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423/20 "2004-04-17T17:27:24Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Isn’t that the gist of how porno production is not considered prostitution? In other words, it’s not prostitution, because the neither of the people having sex are paying, instead someone else is paying them for sex. > > Seems to me that the only difference is that there’s(probably) no filming going on in this situation. No, you’re on the right track but not quite, with respect ot porn. The laws that made it tough to charge porn producers with “pandering” has to do with the fact that the porn performers were getting paid to “make a non-obscene movie”. They specifically were not getting paid for the “sexual gratification” of any the participants. The case law, is People v. Freeman. Freeman was convicted for pandering after he hired two people to have sex on camera. The conviction was overturned on appeal when the courts found no evidence that Freeman paid the fees “for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification, his own or the actors’.” As long as the film met the stardards of “non-obscene” (which I think was also established by California case-law Miller v. California? ) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-friend-pays-a-prostitute-for-another-friend/240423.md?page=2)