# If a Newtown teacher had been armed and prevented many deaths...
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 23, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948 "2012-12-23T19:21:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/1 "2012-12-23T19:21:37Z")
would they have been charged with a crime? Should they have been?
For purposes of this debate, assume that the teacher were legally licensed to carry a firearm but could not legally do so at the school. Also assume that the teacher fired at the shooter and cleanly killed them after having witnessed the shooter kill several students.
What, if anything, would the teacher be charged with? They could obviously be charged with having a gun in a gun free zone but would they be?
My guess is no. I’m not sure about Connecticut, but in most jurisdictions that I know of, prosecutors are public ally elected officials and most would view it as a political death sentence.
Please do not turn this into a debate about the wisdom or lack thereof about arming teachers.
Forgive any typos, I’m in the back of a bumpy van.
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### Author:  [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/2 "2012-12-23T19:28:13Z")
If a Newtown teacher was armed and presumably shot the shooter, we would have had no idea how many deaths were prevented. Life isn’t a choose your own adventure book where we can turn to another page and see how things had gone if different decisions were made.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/3 "2012-12-23T19:32:09Z")
[I think the penalties for violating these laws include a fine of up to $5,000 or up to 5 years in jail.](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/924) I expect someone who broke these laws and stopped a murderer would be fined at most, and the fine would be more than covered by donations from supporters.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/4 "2012-12-23T19:45:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> [I think the penalties for violating these laws include a fine of up to $5,000 or up to 5 years in jail.](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/924) I expect someone who broke these laws and stopped a murderer would be fined at most, and the fine would be more than covered by donations from supporters.
But he wouldn’t be stopping a murderer in this scenario, he’d be stopping a _potential_ murderer. Basically what is being asked here is what the penalty might be for a teacher, carrying illegally, killing another person that seems to pose a threat to others at that school.
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/5 "2012-12-23T19:59:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> But he wouldn’t be stopping a murderer in this scenario, he’d be stopping a _potential_ murderer. Basically what is being asked here is what the penalty might be for a teacher, carrying illegally, killing another person that seems to pose a threat to others at that school.
The OP assumes that the shooter had already killed several students.
I’d assume that political pressure would preclude charging the teacher.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/6 "2012-12-23T20:04:00Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> The OP assumes that the shooter had already killed several students.
>
> I’d assume that political pressure would preclude charging the teacher.
Sorry-misread OP.
I guess they would have to pick between the shitstorm of charging a hero vs. the shitstorm of advocating the illegal carrying of guns.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/7 "2012-12-23T23:22:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> But he wouldn’t be stopping a murderer in this scenario, he’d be stopping a _potential_ murderer. Basically what is being asked here is what the penalty might be for a teacher, carrying illegally, killing another person that seems to pose a threat to others at that school.
If a person were to shoot his way through the door and come barreling into an elementary school armed to the teeth, I should think a person would have reasonable apprehension that the armed intruder was a lethal threat to many lives. There is no law against killing someone who is threatening your life, even if the weapon at hand is illegal.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/8 "2012-12-23T23:43:30Z")
Simple. Demand a jury trial. No jury will convict. Jurors would be throwing spitballs at the prosecutor during his opening arguments.
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### Author:  [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/9 "2012-12-23T23:50:27Z")
Regardless of any written law I find it hard to believe any jury would have convicted them.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/10 "2012-12-24T00:02:52Z")
The DA would have to choose to prosecute first. If he faced no pressure to do so, why would he?
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### Author:  [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/11 "2012-12-24T00:05:30Z")
An interesting scenario would be if the teacher had missed with his/her first shot and killed one of the students instead, but hit the gunman with the second shot when the gunman had plenty of ammunition left and was obviously going to shoot more than 1 other kid.
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### Author:  [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/12 "2012-12-24T00:38:53Z")
> [@Mdcastleman](#):
>
> An interesting scenario would be if the teacher had missed with his/her first shot and killed one of the students instead, but hit the gunman with the second shot when the gunman had plenty of ammunition left and was obviously going to shoot more than 1 other kid.
This falls under the “_greater danger_” theory in that it is more dangerous not to act, than to take actions that may not have an ideal outcome:
**Scenario #1:** Accidentally shooting a kid on the first shot and killing the bad guy on the second = 1 dead innocent & 1 dead bad guy.
**Scenario #2:** Not firing at all = 20 dead kids, 1 dead teacher, and 1 bad guy still alive and able to hurt more people.
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/13 "2012-12-24T03:33:51Z")
Is a governor’s pardon power generally absolute? If a prosecutor were to charge the teacher, could/would the governor pardon her against future prosecution like Ford did with Nixon?
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/14 "2012-12-24T03:36:31Z")
I believe “self-defense” would come in, wouldn’t it?
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### Author:  [@Wargamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wargamer)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/15 "2012-12-24T03:40:58Z")
Certainly defense of others as well as self-defense.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/16 "2012-12-24T03:45:47Z")
> [@pkbites](#):
>
> This falls under the “_greater danger_” theory in that it is more dangerous not to act, than to take actions that may not have an ideal outcome:
>
> **Scenario #1:** Accidentally shooting a kid on the first shot and killing the bad guy on the second = 1 dead innocent & 1 dead bad guy.
>
> **Scenario #2:** Not firing at all = 20 dead kids, 1 dead teacher, and 1 bad guy still alive and able to hurt more people.
But the teacher had been doing his “lesser danger” for some time before the shooter came into the picture, and would probably continue to do it if the shooter had never entered the picture, and that _has_ to be addressed. Otherwise you are telling people that if may be against the law to carry in certain circumstances and/or in certain places, but finding a reason to use your weapon before you get caught will give you a free pass.
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/17 "2012-12-24T04:16:27Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> I believe “self-defense” would come in, wouldn’t it?
I believe that self-defense would certainly get a murder charge off of the table but I’m curious about lesser charges.
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### Author:  [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/18 "2012-12-24T10:48:05Z")
An elected DA can’t be seen prosecuting a hero, but can’t be seen as soft on crime or as letting someone off the hook either. With gun control as controversial as it is, I imagine there would be _some_ pressure to prosecute the teacher, even though it would be a minority. It’s really a no-win situation for the DA, but I suspect the best course would be to investigate the teacher and possibly even bring charges, but drop the investigation/charges at the first whiff of public disapproval. That way you can say to one side that you tried to prosecute but were prevented by overwhelming public opinion and tell the other side that you never wanted to prosecute but were forced by the duties of your office to at least try.
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### Author:  [@basefifty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/basefifty)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/19 "2012-12-24T16:34:01Z")
Don’t forget that if any of the other students saw the teacher pointing the weapon in his/her direction, then \*that student \*could shoot (assuming they were also illegally carrying a firearm) the teacher and claim a \*stand your ground \*defense.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-newtown-teacher-had-been-armed-and-prevented-many-deaths/644948/20 "2012-12-24T16:47:14Z")
> [@basefifty](#):
>
> Don’t forget that if any of the other students saw the teacher pointing the weapon in his/her direction, then \*that student \*could shoot (assuming they were also illegally carrying a firearm) the teacher and claim a \*stand your ground \*defense.
There is no such law in Connecticut, and this doesn’t have much to do with the OP’s question. Also, most of the kids who were shot were 6 years old.
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