# If a NFL player was transported back to ancient times, how well would he fare as a warrior? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483 "2013-06-20T17:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/101 "2013-06-25T05:54:55Z")
He’d be a top-notch riot policeman straight off the bat though. Although your police department would be flooded with excessive force law suits… ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/102 "2013-06-25T07:32:04Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > Linebackers lead the defense and call the plays, and many of them are captains. They’d make great leaders on the battlefield. Except in any situation where knowledge or experience is important. I suppose a person from the future might realize the benefits of things like cutting off supply lines etc sooner. So be more forceful in pursuing them. The romans weren’t really sold on the idea, and chose to walk into Cannae instead. But that’s not an advantage specific to linebackers. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/103 "2013-06-25T07:39:13Z")
Also: it wouldn’t really be in the spirit of the OP ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/104 "2013-06-25T10:52:27Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Not a linebacker, but Wilt Chamberlain once allegedly fought a mountain lion and came out on top. And who can forget the baseball career of Michael Jordan? Upthread someone said how our brawny Roman would flee under some form of attack. Did the troops have orderly retreats (loosely defined) to some point in the rear, or was it a “run away” decision per soldier, which clearly would turn into a rout. The Legions were defined by the strength and extraordinary cohesion of their phalanxes, by my understanding. In the melee, however, how were group commands such as “we’ve lost lets bug out now, more or less cohesively” transmitted? Or that’s the whole definition of “melee,” where such control is gone? Of course there must be umpteen million studies of Roman battle from the soldier/“sergeant”'s point of view, as opposed to the classic histories. I’m just a little overwhelmed (and I always have SD :)). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/105 "2013-06-25T12:38:41Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Going roughly by memory wasn’t that the one where one of every 10 men is drawn by lot, and his squadmates beat him to death? [or was that the one by vexillation, I never took latin and my memory is sucky today.] That’s the one. > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Upthread someone said how our brawny Roman would flee under some form of attack. Did the troops have orderly retreats (loosely defined) to some point in the rear, or was it a “run away” decision per soldier, which clearly would turn into a rout. > > The Legions were defined by the strength and extraordinary cohesion of their phalanxes, by my understanding. In the melee, however, how were group commands such as “we’ve lost lets bug out now, more or less cohesively” transmitted? > > Or that’s the whole definition of “melee,” where such control is gone? Romans fighting in phalanx formation? You’re probably thinking of the [triarii](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarii) who fought in such a formation in the third line of Roman battle; after the hastati, the freshest men in the legion. If they failed, they retired by the pricipes, men in the prime of life. If they failed, they’d retire behind the hardened triarii - the Roman expression "_res ad triarios venit"_ - “it has come to the triarii” was like saying “going to the bitter end”. In the later Roman legion, if the front line was getting a bit ragged, wounded or tired a man would bring his shield forward, turn his body behind it and step back to the right - a fresh man from the second rank would move forward from his left and take over. If he fled in the face of the enemy in blind panic the rest of your life would be like a child’s trousers, short and shitty. If you were the aquilifer or signifer, carrying either the legionary eagle of the standard to remind troops of their oath and did a runner, you’d bring disgrace to the entire legion. Later legions did not fight in the phalanx formation, which was starting to become a bit old-hat in the face of the much more mobile manipular legion. The two systems of combat met regularly, most notably at the [Dog’s Head](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cynoscephalae). It’s been debated since whether this demonstrated the superiority of the legion over the phalanx, but in the end Greece and most of the Hellenic world became Roman which probably tells you what you need to know. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/106 "2013-06-25T13:52:28Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > That’s the one. > Romans fighting in phalanx formation? You’re probably thinking of the [triarii](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarii) who fought in such a formation in the third line of Roman battle; after the hastati, the freshest men in the legion. If they failed, they retired by the pricipes, men in the prime of life. If they failed, they’d retire behind the hardened triarii - the Roman expression "_res ad triarios venit"_ - “it has come to the triarii” was like saying “going to the bitter end”. > > In the later Roman legion, if the front line was getting a bit ragged, wounded or tired a man would bring his shield forward, turn his body behind it and step back to the right - a fresh man from the second rank would move forward from his left and take over. If he fled in the face of the enemy in blind panic the rest of your life would be like a child’s trousers, short and shitty. If you were the aquilifer or signifer, carrying either the legionary eagle of the standard to remind troops of their oath and did a runner, you’d bring disgrace to the entire legion. > > Later legions did not fight in the phalanx formation, which was starting to become a bit old-hat in the face of the much more mobile manipular legion. The two systems of combat met regularly, most notably at the [Dog’s Head](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cynoscephalae). It’s been debated since whether this demonstrated the superiority of the legion over the phalanx, but in the end Greece and most of the Hellenic world became Roman which probably tells you what you need to know. Yes, yes, that’s all well and good (seriously very elucidating, thank you! 😉 ), but what do you say? Legio X Gemina Vs an equal number of NFL pro’s (assuming you could actually find that many). Two legions enter, one legion leaves! Who leaves? ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/107 "2013-06-25T16:16:36Z")
> [@Sleel](#): > > How about we flip the question: How would an ancient Roman warrior transported to a modern army fare? It might serve to illuminate some of the blind spots you guys have in thinking that a modern man, however big and strong and physically gifted, would have in dealing with an Iron Age society. > > … I would watch the shit out of this movie. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/108 "2013-06-25T18:11:21Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Yes, yes, that’s all well and good (seriously very elucidating, thank you! 😉 ), but what do you say? > > Legio X Gemina Vs an equal number of NFL pro’s (assuming you could actually find that many). Two legions enter, one legion leaves! Who leaves? The legion, not even close, a full blown massacre. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/109 "2013-06-25T19:43:26Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > How about “would a properly trained NFL player be a prized warrior” instead? I’m not certain, but I assume most Roman soldiers joined up about the time top-prospect football players start college (17-19) “Joined up”, yes, but many (specially those from military families) would have started training a lot earlier. You know, same as you usually wouldn’t expect a boy to go from “skinny class nerd in 12th grade” to “linebacker as a college freshman”. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/110 "2013-06-25T19:43:37Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > That’s the one. > Romans fighting in phalanx formation? You’re probably thinking of the [triarii](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarii) who fought in such a formation in the third line of Roman battle; after the hastati, the freshest men in the legion. If they failed, they retired by the pricipes, men in the prime of life. If they failed, they’d retire behind the hardened triarii - the Roman expression "_res ad triarios venit"_ - “it has come to the triarii” was like saying “going to the bitter end”. > > In the later Roman legion, if the front line was getting a bit ragged, wounded or tired a man would bring his shield forward, turn his body behind it and step back to the right - a fresh man from the second rank would move forward from his left and take over. If he fled in the face of the enemy in blind panic the rest of your life would be like a child’s trousers, short and shitty. If you were the aquilifer or signifer, carrying either the legionary eagle of the standard to remind troops of their oath and did a runner, you’d bring disgrace to the entire legion. > > Later legions did not fight in the phalanx formation, which was starting to become a bit old-hat in the face of the much more mobile manipular legion. The two systems of combat met regularly, most notably at the [Dog’s Head](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cynoscephalae). It’s been debated since whether this demonstrated the superiority of the legion over the phalanx, but in the end Greece and most of the Hellenic world became Roman which probably tells you what you need to know. Thank you for this. I’ve gone to some of the entire in the Wiki Portal for Roman military history, including [Structural\_history\_of\_the\_Roman\_military](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_history_of_the_Roman_military). But I’m flummoxed by all the words. Do you have any www cites with, you know, pitchers? Plan views I think would be clearest. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/111 "2013-06-25T21:22:36Z")
What like [this](http://romanmilitary.net/strategy/legform/)? Actually you could probably just pick up a copy of Rome:Total War (or watch youtube videos) for the general idea. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/112 "2013-06-26T15:18:21Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Thank you for this. I’ve gone to some of the entire in the Wiki Portal for Roman military history, including [Structural\_history\_of\_the\_Roman\_military](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_history_of_the_Roman_military). But I’m flummoxed by all the words. Do you have any www cites with, you know, pitchers? Plan views I think would be clearest. The History of Rome podcast has an episode describing it (A Phalanx with joints). No pictures, but it beats reading I guess. part 1: [http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/the\_history\_of\_rome/2008/11/14a-a-phalanx-with-joints.html](http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/the_history_of_rome/2008/11/14a-a-phalanx-with-joints.html) part 2: [http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/the\_history\_of\_rome/2008/11/14b-a-phalanx-with-joints.html](http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/the_history_of_rome/2008/11/14b-a-phalanx-with-joints.html) ---
**Author:** ![kfraser34](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@kfraser34](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kfraser34)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/113 "2013-06-26T17:10:08Z")
> [@Sleel](#): > > How about we flip the question: How would an ancient Roman warrior transported to a modern army fare? It might serve to illuminate some of the blind spots you guys have in thinking that a modern man, however big and strong and physically gifted, would have in dealing with an Iron Age society. That is not really flipping the question. The NFL player is taken from the future and put into a life that is completely unknown. The Soldier is taken from the past and put into the modern equivalent of his profession. If you really want to flip the question have the Roman come to the future and play a game of NFL football. If he was unable to “withdraw” because of injuries and had to be on the field for the number of plays that a NFL starter would until the end of the game or death? I say the soldier dies 99% of the time. After the third or fourth time that they had to wake him up with smelling salts his brain would have bounced off his skull enough times he wouldn’t even know his own name. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/114 "2013-06-26T17:53:04Z")
> [@kfraser34](#): > > After the third or fourth time that they had to wake him up with smelling salts his brain would have bounced off his skull enough times he wouldn’t even know his own name. I can agree even a “massive” 5’7" Roman soldier in extraordinarily good shape wouldn’t make a particularly good football player or even rugby player. As **Nava** points out, it’s not like pro teams are scouting the advanced calculus classrooms for the next star athlete. Pros have usually been involved/indoctrinated into their sport of choice since childhood and bring learned instincts to the game at higher levels that a Roman just wouldn’t have. But I think an ancient soldier would be at least as tough as a pro athlete–able to handle a few deep bruises and concussions without much fuss. They might get beat up a lot more because they don’t know how to identify and avoid a devastating trap block, but I think they could handle garden variety pain quite well. If a guy wrecks his knee, an NFL game pauses whereas a bronze age battle would just get a bit more intense–The Roman would be conditioned to keep working until he dropped dead. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/115 "2013-06-26T18:17:05Z")
> [@davidborts](#): > > As the question says, imagine a NFL linebacker being transported to roman times, how prized would he be as a soldier? Probably a lot more than a normal know-nothing recruit, on account of how he’s **A FRIGGING GIANT** which has to be worth something, despite it being ridiculously expensive to keep him fed, clothed and equipped. Probably a lot less than ten veteran troops, on account of how they would collectively hack him into itty bitty pieces and you would still have a few of them left afterwards. Exactly how valuable he would be on that spectrum (worth three veterans with bad feet? Four newbies with squints + one good slinger?) I wouldn’t really know, but unless there was more to him than his physique, I sincerely doubt generals would be duelling over the chance to retain his battlefield services. His bedroom services, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/116 "2013-06-26T18:20:09Z")
> [@kfraser34](#): > > That is not really flipping the question. The NFL player is taken from the future and put into a life that is completely unknown. The Soldier is taken from the past and put into the modern equivalent of his profession. > > If you really want to flip the question have the Roman come to the future and play a game of NFL football. If he was unable to “withdraw” because of injuries and had to be on the field for the number of plays that a NFL starter would until the end of the game or death? I say the soldier dies 99% of the time. > > After the third or fourth time that they had to wake him up with smelling salts his brain would have bounced off his skull enough times he wouldn’t even know his own name. Lol, he would die 99% of the time? In a football game? Common now,… Rugby, maybe, but football? No, the guy would suck at football at a professional level, and rubgy. But he’s not going to actually die from playing a football game or a rugby game. This is just a ridiculous notion. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/117 "2013-06-26T18:24:46Z")
Hmm, re-reading the post, I think you were saying that he would be killed if he couldn’t keep up with the NFL player’s performance, not that he would die from the game. Which makes a lot more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/118 "2013-06-26T18:37:24Z")
That’s some tough Coach. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/119 "2013-06-26T18:41:13Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > What like [this](http://romanmilitary.net/strategy/legform/)? Actually you could probably just pick up a copy of Rome:Total War (or watch youtube videos) for the general idea. Yeah, maybe something like that. 🙂 And thanks also to **pancakes3**. ---
**Author:** ![kfraser34](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@kfraser34](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kfraser34)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483/120 "2013-06-27T00:19:12Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Hmm, re-reading the post, I think you were saying that he would be killed if he couldn’t keep up with the NFL player’s performance, not that he would die from the game. > > Which makes a lot more sense. No I mean he would die… literally… > [@Kinthalis](#): > > But he’s not going to actually die from playing a football game or a rugby game. This is just a ridiculous notion. ya because _no one dies from massive and repeated concussions_… they just take an aspirin and sleep it off… If you don’t think that the hits that happen in a NFL game would lead to massive concussions for an inexperienced average size man… you have no idea about the sport or the men that play it… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-nfl-player-was-transported-back-to-ancient-times-how-well-would-he-fare-as-a-warrior/661483.md?page=7)