# If a poster is wrong more than half the time, would you take them seriously? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2013, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238 "2013-09-07T09:31:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/161 "2013-09-09T16:21:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > See? Now THAT’S an example of true vitriol. > > Take notes, kids; this may be on the final. What I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a long posting career. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/162 "2013-09-09T16:36:42Z")
Are you Liam Neeson? If so you should make a Taken 3. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/163 "2013-09-09T16:39:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of course not. A child can distinguish between what you posted and actual ire. Yes, a child can detect sarcasm. A child can also distinguish between someone who acknowledges an error and someone who perpetually argues in circles and from false premises. > [@](#): > > You know what I’ve said is true, and and I assume, when this kind of useless drivel is substituted for actual rebuttal, it’s because you got nuthin. Especially poignant, this, inasmuch as this thread inveighs at length against adaher, who of course often uses this kind of juvenile tactic in his frustration. > > Am I wrong? Do you have something serious? I don’t speak for anyone on this board but myself, and should not be taken to task for their words. If you’re dismayed at the ire expressed at conservatives, then lay as much of that at my feet as you think you can justify. If I’ve called anyone’s words “useless drivel”, or said “you got nuthin’”, or accused them of “juvenile tactics”, it’ll be news to me. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/164 "2013-09-09T16:42:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > What I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a long posting career. Pssst! Can you help me with the crib sheet? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/165 "2013-09-09T17:08:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The point is not that the liberal-friendly false claims posted are never corrected. It’s that their correction is seldom a point of ire or indignation; there’s no anger or vitriol associated with it. > > Conversely, while a conservative-friendly false claim is quickly debunked, it’s done with energy and vigor and most importantly ire. The problem is that when I look at the points that \*\*adaher \*\*makes there is more than just plain ignorance. As I pointed out, when people like Evil Captor says that they made a mistake it is more than just a correction, it is an acknowledgement that the mistake will not be made again. adaher doubles down on the mistakes, denying that there is anything wrong. In the case of the lawsuit against Obama and the dreamers from ICE, Kris Kobach, the attorney who represented the agents is someone that any GOP member that does not want to have the racist label applied to the party should had dumped yesterday. > **[Dangerous Liaisons](https://www.splcenter.org/resources/reports/dangerous-liaisons-2/)** > > Losing at home, U.S. religious-right groups are working furiously to keep gay sex criminalized in Belize and beyond But for a lawyer that is not the most important thing, what is important is that any lawyer that is not a birther should had realized as other experts did that thanks to the area where the lawsuit was made or the focus of\*\* it was bound to fail\*\*. There was really no merit there, now the judge that dismissed the lawsuit for those reasons reported that it was more likely to succeed in a different setting, but then one has to wonder why it was not made that way. Anyhow, even if it was thrown out and it was clear that there was no merit there \*\*adaher \*\*still continues to declare that it had. That is how he remains wrong, and there is no ire on telling him that he is wrong on the legal front, but one has to remember that he should not tell us that is raining when they are peeing on us; as I pointed before many times in the past, even to you, there would not be much to complain about laws that pressure immigrants when the enforcers of the law are fair. However, ignoring the racism of who is pushing for and funding a misguided effort is to ignore the ire that is behind the ones pushing that and other obstructionists efforts in the name of prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/166 "2013-09-09T17:30:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nothing “has” to be done. > > But it’s certainly supportive of my point that _when_ vitriol and ire come into play, it’s a conservative claim being debunked, not a liberal one. So address the disparity - when you see a liberal claim that you can debunk, do so with vigorous anger and righteous indignation and maybe call somebody a cocksucker. If you’re too lazy, why should others do it for you? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/167 "2013-09-09T17:31:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The problem is that when I look at the points that \*\*adaher \*\*makes there is more than just plain ignorance. As I pointed out, when people like Evil Captor says that they made a mistake it is more than just a correction, it is an acknowledgement that the mistake will not be made again. adaher doubles down on the mistakes, denying that there is anything wrong. Agreed. Although I’d point out that Evil Captor is still seeking to defend his point in the GD trhread, rather than just acknowledging his OP was flawed. But your overall point is very fair. **adaher** appears invulnerable to having any particular lesson in reasoning sink in, and in that he is virtually _sui generis_ here. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/168 "2013-09-09T19:33:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I ask because as may of you know, I’m wrong a lot. I make dumb arguments, I recite facts from memory that turn out to be laughably wrong. My strongest reaction to your OP is to suggest to you the most obvious conclusion is that you should reexamine your underlying assumptions, and try harder to get your facts straight. But especially, reexamine your underlying assumptions. (Nuke the site from orbit; it’s the only way to be sure.) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/169 "2013-09-09T19:54:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope, not buying it, the problem is that in virtually all the previous discussions **you never come back to acknowledge the wrong information**. That is precisely a demonstration of immaturity\* and a big reason why many do not take you seriously. > \*This is even more evident by many times seeing you come back with one liners that only attempt to ridicule a cite that showed that you were wrong and then no evidence is posted to support your one liner. Agreed, nothing undermines credibility as much as being clearly wrong and failing to acknowledge the error. > [@adaher](#): > > I ask because as may of you know, I’m wrong a lot. I make dumb arguments, I recite facts from memory that turn out to be laughably wrong. Some would say that because of that, I’m not worth being taken seriously. Some have even accused me of bad motives. And I’m not alone. It seems to be a common thread throughout the internet that if you disagree with someone, they are obviously an idiot or evil. Of course not everyone does this, but too often vitriol is directed at posters just for being wrong. Part of it has to do with being on the wrong end of the political scpectrum. This board suffers libheral idiots a lot better than it suffers conservative ones. On the one hand it really improves the quality of the conservatives around here, on the other thand, they’re still conservatives (ewww). But part of it is the frequency with which you make extreme statements and then refuse to acknowledge when these statements are proven incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/170 "2013-09-09T20:32:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > . . . But it’s certainly supportive of my point that _when_ vitriol and ire come into play, it’s a conservative claim being debunked, not a liberal one. Conservative claims, in themselves, tend to be more vitriolic. The current make-up of the conservative movement in the U.S. is based on anger. We liberals tried to match “hate radio” airtime with the conservatives. Air America didn’t work out too well, because we just don’t do hatred with the same chop-licking (and logic-chopping) vitriol. We don’t have a Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter. We have a few minor applicants for the role…and, by and large, we don’t listen to them. The error of “The Republicans want to ban all pornography” is way out in the fourth decimal place. The error of “Obama deliberately killed the Ambassador to Libya” is right there in the first decimal place. The latter is vastly more vitriolic, and thus the responses to it are also more acrid. You’re acting mad because we don’t hate John Stewart as much as we hate Rush Limbaugh. Perhaps that’s because John makes an effort to be a lot nicer than Rush does. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/171 "2013-09-09T21:00:00Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Pssst! Can you help me with the crib sheet? First, take the baby out of the crib, then spread the sheet over… ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/172 "2013-09-10T01:40:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > On the contrary – please point out the posts in that thread that you feel genuinely criticize **EC** or the argument in anything approaching a harsh manner. > > The point is not that the liberal-friendly false claims posted are never corrected. It’s that their correction is seldom a point of ire or indignation; there’s no anger or vitriol associated with it. > > Conversely, while a conservative-friendly false claim is quickly debunked, it’s done with energy and vigor and most importantly ire. You need ire and vigor directed at a liberal by other liberals for their posting Bricker? Let me introduce you to the wonder of Tralfamidor… > **[I pit the Republicans who have opposed social progress by...](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694827)** > > …for 80+ years, stating that every social program–Social Security, minimum wage, workplace safety laws, overtime pay, the 40-hour work week, Medicare, etc. would bring about the total destruction of American business and obliterate American Life as... ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/173 "2013-09-10T02:01:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Take the President for example: > > [PolitiFact | Barack Obama](http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/) > > He’s wrong more than half the time he opens his mouth Does Politifact check every utterance and tally the right things he says? Of course not. They check the things that sound fishy. So if you make 1000 statements a day, 10 of them sound fishy, and 5 of those are false, you can hardly say that 5 false statements out of 1000 makes you a compulsive liar. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/174 "2013-09-11T04:24:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m actually disheartened that so many posters in this thread think that attacking other posters for being wrong is a-okay. Even if I’m a complete moron and not worthy to debate on this board, it simply does not justify that kind of behavior. I recognize it is what it is, this is the internet, but if Dopers would frown on personal attacks as much as they frown on ignorance, that would be a good thing. I lack the patience to read pages 2 and 3. If this has been covered, then I apologize. To answer your question, there are different varietals of being wrong and I don’t take seriously information sources that don’t care about the facts and don’t correct themselves. To be specific, when I see a Michael Moore film I laugh, but I take care not to treat his work as factual. Because I don’t consider him a reliable source. Ditto for the late Christopher Hitchens and Saletin of Slate magazine. If I _have_ to read those sources, I take it really slow. Different varietals: those who fabricate evidence deserve condemnation. Those who constantly screw up their facts deserve contempt. Those who occasionally mess up their facts and endeavor to correct themselves when they slip up gain my respect. Those who are pig-headed but will correct themselves after 5 pages of debate may receive a sigh, but occasionally will receive constructive mockery from me. Your posts waste my fucking time **adaher**. You are a bullshit artist. I usually start off with a slight muddling of facts _but I check them and adjust accordingly before I post_. I’ve gone back and forth with you and I find that a factual correction is too often met with you blowing more suppositions out of your posterior. Now look: bullshit artistry requires a certain degree of intelligence. You got that, at least in a minimal way. It’s also fucking rude in this context, namely because you can make shit up faster than I can track things down. Look, I respect Bricker and I’ve even enjoyed conversations with Sam Stone. And you can see that the journalists above that I criticize and evade trend left. So it’s not a liberal/conservative thing, at least for me. Also **BobLibDem** makes a good point about selection bias. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/175 "2013-09-11T06:49:47Z")
Christopher Hitchens was lefty? _Ewwww._ ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/176 "2013-09-11T08:35:37Z")
Christopher Hitchens had various oddball political beliefs: > **[Christopher Hitchens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens)** > > Christopher Eric Hitchens (13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011) was an English-American author and journalist who is widely regarded as one of the most influential atheists of the 20th and 21st centuries. Author of 18 books on faith, culture, politics, and literature, he was born and educated in Britain, graduating in the 1970s from Oxford. In the early 1980s, he immigrated to the United States and wrote for The Nation and Vanity Fair. Known as one of the four horsemen of New Atheism, he ga Hitc... ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/177 "2013-09-11T21:19:49Z")
From wikipedia: Hitchens went to the United States in 1981, as part of an editor exchange program between The New Statesman and the The Nation.[25] After joining The Nation, he penned vociferous critiques of Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush and American foreign policy in South and Central America.[26][27][28][29][30][31][32] He became a contributing editor of Vanity Fair in 1992,[33] writing ten columns a year. He left The Nation in 2002 after profoundly disagreeing with other contributors over the Iraq War…He became a media fellow at the [center-right -ed, mfm] Hoover Institution in September 2008.[37] I parted company with Hitchens well before 2002 though (maybe 1998, though frankly I never followed him closely). Given his ideological meanderings though perhaps that wasn’t the best example. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/178 "2013-09-11T21:58:28Z")
The OP should request a name change, either to **Dr. Soong** (Noonian, often wrong) or **Dr. Burns** (Maj. Frank, always wrong). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/179 "2013-09-11T23:17:58Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > You need ire and vigor directed at a liberal by other liberals for their posting Bricker? Let me introduce you to the wonder of Tralfamidor… > [I pit the Republicans who have opposed social progress by... - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694827) I’m sorry, but while he apparently self-identified as liberal, the bulk of his posting in that thread (at least what I have read so far) reflects a very free-market-friendly world view, so much so that people take him to task and he reminds everyone at least once that his OP started out being critical of the GOP. In short: it seems to me that he was unpopular precisely because his views were not liberal enough. Perhaps there are other examples which would change my mind. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238/180 "2013-09-12T02:18:00Z")
There are any number of people who believe that the magic of free market economics teamed up with a business friendly environment is the clear path to all of our progressive agenda. I am one of those who finds the proposition dubious. But such persons are free to label themselves “liberals”, if they so choose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-poster-is-wrong-more-than-half-the-time-would-you-take-them-seriously/668238.md?page=10)