# If a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [April 7, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127 "2001-04-07T04:23:11Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@KaBone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KaBone)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/1 "2001-04-07T04:23:11Z")
Anyone ever ask you, “If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around, does it make a sound?” I always say, ‘yes’. The ones who ask always say, ‘no’. I think that’s because they’re trying to be some sort of ‘geni-ass’. Maybe a better question is, how could it not make a sound?
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### Author:  [@Gunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gunslinger)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/2 "2001-04-07T04:39:09Z")
Their argument: If there’s nobody to hear it, it’s not a sound.
The truth: Sound is a compression wave in a medium. It doesn’t matter if you hear it, the wave’s still there.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/3 "2001-04-07T04:42:37Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Maybe a better question is, how could it not make a sound?
Maybe a better way to think about the question would be to ask: Can I prove that a falling tree makes a sound without actually listening to it fall ?
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/4 "2001-04-07T04:42:54Z")
I applaud your brave, no nonsense take on this classic metaphysical poser with the sound of one hand clapping.
‘geni-ass… mmmmmm…Barbara Eden…mmmmm’
From the clues for KaBone file…hang on it’s a big file… Ah! Here it is.
[http://www.anu.edu.au/ITA/ACAT/drw/PPofM/INDEX.html](http://www.anu.edu.au/ITA/ACAT/drw/PPofM/INDEX.html)
"PHYSICS OF SOUND: BASICS CONCEPTS
SOUND: Some Basic Concepts and Definitions
Definitions of Sound
Question: If a tree falls in the forest, and there is no one to hear it, will there be a sound?..
This is a very old philosophical dilemma which relies on using the word “sound” for two different purposes. One use is as a description of a particular type of physical disturbance:
"Sound is an organised movement of molecules caused by a vibrating body in some medium - water, air, rock or whatever.“The other is as a description of a sensation:
“Sound is the auditory sensation produced through the ear by the alteration … in pressure, particle displacement, or particle velocity which is propagated in an elastic medium.”[#]
Both these definitions are correct, they differ only in the first being a cause and the second being an effect.”
etc. etc. and course etc. and yet more etc.
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### Author:  [@FEotU](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FEotU)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/5 "2001-04-07T06:31:40Z")
No, but the other trees laugh at it.
On a similar note, if a redneck farts in the woods and there’s no one else to hear, does he still laugh?
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### Author:  [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/6 "2001-04-07T06:54:43Z")
My father’s second wife asked me the same question when I was nine years old, and my response to her was: If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there, how do you know it fell in the first place?
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### Author:  [@ryoushi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryoushi)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/7 "2001-04-07T06:56:02Z")
It’s like the Schrödinger’s Cat experiment. The tree half-makes-a-sound and half-doesn’t. 😉
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### Author:  [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/8 "2001-04-07T07:30:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ryoushi \*
> \*\*It’s like the Schrödinger’s Cat experiment. The tree half-makes-a-sound and half-doesn’t. 😉 \*\*
You’ve misinterpreted Schrödinger. The tree would be in a superimposition of two states, one where it 100% makes a sound and one where it 0% makes a sound. The tree is both making and not-making a sound, simultaneously.
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### Author:  [@ryoushi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryoushi)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/9 "2001-04-07T08:27:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Chas.E \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by ryoushi \*
> > It’s like the Schrödinger’s Cat experiment. The tree half-makes-a-sound and half-doesn’t. 😉
>
> You’ve misinterpreted Schrödinger. The tree would be in a superimposition of two states, one where it 100% makes a sound and one where it 0% makes a sound. The tree is both making and not-making a sound, simultaneously. \*\*
Or, yeah… what he said.
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### Author:  [@TPWombat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TPWombat)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/10 "2001-04-07T12:27:03Z")
I can’t remember where I heard this variant -
“If a man speaks in a forest, and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong anyway?” 😃
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/11 "2001-04-07T12:44:33Z")
One line that didn’t make it past the Saturday Night Live censors: If Helen Keller fell in the forest and nobody was around, would she make a sound?
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### Author:  [@heembo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heembo)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/12 "2001-04-07T15:52:30Z")
Sort of a hijak, I suppose…
* * *
One line that didn’t make it past the Saturday Night Live censors: If Helen Keller fell in the forest and nobody was around, would she make a sound?
* * *
Annie-Xmas, are you are writer for SNL?
Heembo
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/13 "2001-04-07T15:57:41Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by heembo \*
> \*\*Sort of a hijak, I suppose…
> Annie-Xmas, are you are writer for SNL?
>
> Heembo
> \*\*
No. It was in a book I read.
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### Author:  [@Gunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gunslinger)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/14 "2001-04-07T16:24:37Z")
If a tree falls on a mime and there’s nobody around to hear it, does anybody care?
😃
::d&r::
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### Author:  [@Billy\_Rubin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Rubin)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/15 "2001-04-07T17:19:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ryoushi \*
> \*\*It’s like the Schrödinger’s Cat experiment. The tree half-makes-a-sound and half-doesn’t. 😉 \*\*
I don’t know what relevance this has to the tree sound/no sound question, but I always appreciate a Schrödinger reference. Anyone who puts cats in boxes with radioactive elements and prussic acid is OK by me
**KIDDING! i’m KIDDING! don’t you people know a JOKE when you hear one? HAHAHAHA!!!** -Gene Wilder
b.
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### Author:  [@berdollos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/berdollos)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/16 "2001-04-07T17:27:08Z")
Yes, it makes vibrations, but there is no “sound” per se unless there is a way of recording the vibrations. If an insect hears it, then there is sound, otherwise, just vibrations.
A good example, elephants hear low frequency waves, below what we can hear. To us, they are not sound. TO elephants, they are.
If you could hear radio waves, they would be sound. As we can’t hear them, they are not sound, just electromagnectic waves at a very high frequency
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### Author:  [@Mikahw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikahw)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/17 "2001-04-07T18:28:31Z")
Hey, maybe trees don’t actually fall when there’s nobody to observe. They just get teleported to the ground. Uh-oh. Know the movie “The matrix”? That’s a factual movie…
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/18 "2001-04-07T18:41:44Z")
OK, I think (or at least hope) that everyone here knows what actually happens when a tree falls. The only debate is whether what happens should be called “sound”. This is a very silly thing to debate, as folks can call anything by any name that they choose. Therefore, I’m closing this thread.
The only non-silly discussion which this topic might inspire is that of solipsism, the notion that unless I, personally, experience an event, it never happened. If you want to discuss this, open up a new thread for it, in Great Debates.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2001, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-tree-falls-in-the-woods-does-it-make-a-sound/61127/19 "2001-04-07T19:41:40Z")
**Arjuna34** has pointed out to me that the Master has already addressed this question. For the sake of completeness, the column is [If a tree falls in the woods, is there a sound?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_236.html).
It’s still a silly question.