# If a U.S. President was angry at you... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896 "2005-11-13T22:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rippingtons\_fan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rippingtons_fan/32/11767_2.png) [@rippingtons\_fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rippingtons_fan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/1 "2005-11-13T22:04:28Z")
If a president of the United States was really personally angry (for whatever reason) at an individual average, ordinary U.S. citizen, (living here in the U.S.), what could happen to that person? How far could a president go to punish a citizen ( say even for some small perceived “offence” that may or may not actually have taken place?) Could the president punish somebody-not famous- (even a person just picked at random) on a mere whim? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/2 "2005-11-13T22:10:26Z")
WAG: - An average President, no. - An evil President with no scruples about breaking the law, OTOH, could probably rain down no end of black helicopter whoop-ass hell upon you, just with a quiet word in somebody’s ear. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/3 "2005-11-13T22:17:05Z")
The president has a ton of power so I am sure anything could be arranged if he/she didn’t care about the law. Semi-legally, the president could have that person put under a microscope by all kinds of governement agencies. Your average small-buisness owner can be seriously hurt by a mega IRS audit. Most people have soemthing they can be heavily investigated for if you try hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/4 "2005-11-13T22:18:21Z")
Even without breaking any laws, the President could go on national TV and tell the country that he didn’t like that person, in whatever level of detail he chose. Doing so would turn a significant level of public opinion against that person. Of course, it might also turn a certain segment of the public towards the individual, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/5 "2005-11-13T22:20:25Z")
I was taught in school that the reason for the Bill of Rights was to prevent the abuse of power by which a king could extrajudicially imprison anyone he disliked, and without accountability. That we fought the American Revolution to have a nation that would be free of kings who trampled human rights that way. That this protection of rights is what makes us a great nation. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/6 "2005-11-13T22:25:02Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The president has a ton of power so I am sure anything could be arranged if he/she didn’t care about the law. Semi-legally, the president could have that person put under a microscope by all kinds of governement agencies. Your average small-buisness owner can be seriously hurt by a mega IRS audit. Most people have soemthing they can be heavily investigated for if you try hard enough. A “mistaken identity” arrest and release after 48 hours with no charges filed could play havoc on someones life especially if they have kids. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/7 "2005-11-13T22:34:09Z")
> [@rippingtons\_fan](#): > > If a president of the United States was really personally angry (for whatever reason) at an individual average, ordinary U.S. citizen, (living here in the U.S.), what could happen to that person? How far could a president go to punish a citizen ( say even for some small perceived “offence” that may or may not actually have taken place?) > Could the president punish somebody-not famous- (even a person just picked at random) on a mere whim? Well, not to politicize this, but I’m pretty sure that the PATRIOT act allows the national security organs can detain people indefinitely for no reason if they’re declared a person of interest in a terrorist investigation. The president probably has enough pull to make this happen, and if it weren’t an obvious long-standing political competitor, nobody would probably ever even question it. ---
**Author:** ![priapus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@priapus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/priapus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/8 "2005-11-13T22:34:15Z")
If the president really held a grudge,he might have his aides reveal that your spouse is a government agent.If you wrote a book saying the president was a boozing drug user as a youth,you might be found dead in a motel room from a self inflicted wound.They don’t call it the Texas Mafia for nuttin ---
**Author:** ![ProTem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/51bf81/32.png) [@ProTem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProTem)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/9 "2005-11-13T22:45:13Z")
The way things stand today, I think the president could simply have you brought in for questioning on any premise, from being a terrorist, covering up a leak, knowing more than you’re telling about anthrax or nuclear materials in eastern Europe … And then move you to camp xray or some other country, and you’d become lost in the system and never heard from again. That’s what they do in South America, and that’s where we’re headed. Due process is not a priority with this president. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/10 "2005-11-13T22:57:03Z")
I think people are vastly overrating the abilities of a President to pull something like this off. Nixon tried it and couldn’t really do anything with pulling some illegal stuff, and it backfired on him. If a hint of it got out (and it would, no government is good at keeping secrets) the downside would be sudden and severe. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/11 "2005-11-13T23:16:00Z")
A great way for a President to deal with old-time grudges would be to go to his high school reunion !!! The high school jock who made fun of you? “Hey Dave, nice wife. Gee, when your Senior Prom date was a _guy_ everyone was sure that you were … well you know. Good to see you’ve finally made up your mind.” 😃 The stuck-up girl that turned you down for a date? "Joan !!! I remember your eleventh grade science project - “Nymphomania - a Personal Perspective”. 😃 “Hey anyone need a ride home? I’m going back to DC on … ahem … Air Force One.” Be sure to invite all the networks and newspapers. Have lots of video cameras around to preserve the evening’s fun. Sell the videos to CNN, CBS, etc. AND if anyone decides to get violent? You’ve got Secret Service protection. Wow - that would be quite a power trip and that’s _without_ abusing any authority, or improperly using any federal agencies. Hmmm what if a President _ **really** _ wanted to go after someone? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/12 "2005-11-13T23:19:52Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I was taught in school that the reason for the Bill of Rights was to prevent the abuse of power by which a king could extrajudicially imprison anyone he disliked, and without accountability. That we fought the American Revolution to have a nation that would be free of kings who trampled human rights that way. That this protection of rights is what makes us a great nation. ☹ I thought that was what the Magna Carta was about. Sure a forceful personality like Henry VIII could find ways around it but I don’t thing George III was able to extrajudicially imprison on a whim. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/13 "2005-11-13T23:52:35Z")
I’ve wondered about this, but sort of from the opposite perspective. If you, as an average US citizen, answered the phone one day to find the Presidient asking for a favour, would you do it? Assuming everything checked out and you knew it was really the President? Are there requests you would say no to? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/14 "2005-11-13T23:58:46Z")
Now, **Addington** , I’m not giving you any new ideas. You’ll have to find out another way. How’s the new job going? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/15 "2005-11-14T01:49:31Z")
With nearly unlimited pardon powers, it would be difficult to prosecute an Evil POTUS. He has a Gordon Liddy type do the job, issues a pardon for that. You have to go thru the impeachment process and get a lot of Senators to vote for conviction. If he has enough “friends” in the Senate, nothing to worry about. (Well, until his term expires. And the term of his choosen successor, etc.) But the “Hey, we’re still a free country” crowd is behind the times. Since 9/11 and the Patriot Act, this isn’t your parent’s America anymore. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/16 "2005-11-14T02:20:18Z")
> [@rippingtons\_fan](#): > > If a president of the United States was really personally angry (for whatever reason) at an individual average, ordinary U.S. citizen, (living here in the U.S.), what could happen to that person? How far could a president go to punish a citizen ( say even for some small perceived “offence” that may or may not actually have taken place?) > Could the president punish somebody-not famous- (even a person just picked at random) on a mere whim? 100% so. The POTUS could get away with squashing me like a bug for any reason, or no reason at all. The only limitations: #1) This could be problematic with highly visible targets. Lots of folks would ask questions if the top Democrat in the Senate were to conveniently “vanish”. #2) The POTUS better not push his luck. Squashing a single nobody would be nearly risk free. Many nobodies would be a problem. This would be a conspiracy that would need henchmen to carry out the dirty deeds. What if one of the henchmen had a religious conversion, accepted Jesus as his savior, and publicly confessed all sins? The cat could get out of the bag. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/17 "2005-11-14T02:27:27Z")
There are certainly laws against the President doing at least some of the things suggested. For example, [26 U.S.C. 7217 (Prohibition on executive branch influence over taxpayer audits and other investigations)](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00007217----000-.html): > [@](#): > > **(a) Prohibition** > It shall be unlawful for any applicable person to request, directly or indirectly, any officer or employee of the Internal Revenue Service to conduct or terminate an audit or other investigation of any particular taxpayer with respect to the tax liability of such taxpayer. > > **(b) Reporting requirement** > Any officer or employee of the Internal Revenue Service receiving any request prohibited by subsection (a) shall report the receipt of such request to the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration. > > **© Exceptions** > Subsection (a) shall not apply to any written request made— > **(1)** to an applicable person by or on behalf of the taxpayer and forwarded by such applicable person to the Internal Revenue Service; > **(2)** by an applicable person for disclosure of return or return information under section 6103 if such request is made in accordance with the requirements of such section; or > **(3)** by the Secretary of the Treasury as a consequence of the implementation of a change in tax policy. > > **(d) Penalty** > Any person who willfully violates subsection (a) or fails to report under subsection (b) shall be punished upon conviction by a fine in any amount not exceeding $5,000, or imprisonment of not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution. > > **(e) Applicable person** > For purposes of this section, the term “applicable person” means— > **(1)** the President, the Vice President, any employee of the executive office of the President, and any employee of the executive office of the Vice President; and > **(2)** any individual (other than the Attorney General of the United States) serving in a position specified in section [5312](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode05/usc_sec_05_00005312----000-.html) of title 5, United States Code. Of course the President would have to be impeached first before he could be criminally tried; [Article 2 of the Articles of Impeachment](http://watergate.info/impeachment/impeachment-articles.shtml#2) against Richard Nixon adopted by the House Judiciary Committee specifically mentioned the President “acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, endeavoured to obtain from the Internal Revenue Service, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, confidential information contained in income tax returns for purposed not authorized by law, and to cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, income tax audits or other income tax investigations to be intitiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner.” After Nixon resigned, he was given a blanket pardon by Gerald Ford, and was never subject to a criminal trial. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/18 "2005-11-14T02:32:53Z")
> [@](#): > > The president has a ton of power so I am sure anything could be arranged if he/she didn’t care about the law. We should probably distinguish between what the President of the United States could _legally_ do, and what he or she could conceivably get away with in various hypothetical circumstances. A great many Americans own a variety of guns, knives, baseball bats, poisons, golf clubs, wood chippers, and candlesticks, and thus possess the means for doing away with their family members, friends, neighbors, business associates, or total strangers, but that doesn’t mean they are legally allowed to do so, even if sometimes people manage to commit murder and beat the rap. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/19 "2005-11-14T02:59:46Z")
Leaving aside various things a President could arrange to have done illegally or that he could influence having done, I would say the only legitimate power a President has in a situation like this is the abuse of his pardoning power. If the President says he’s going to pardon anyone who commits a felony against John Smith then he hasn’t done anything illegal but Smith is going to face a lot of problems. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896/20 "2005-11-14T03:05:17Z")
One caveat; the President only has the power to pardon people convicted of federal felonies. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-u-s-president-was-angry-at-you/330896.md?page=2)