# If a written story is posted in a magazine do they own the copyright? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903 "2018-04-06T00:56:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/1 "2018-04-06T00:56:50Z")
I’m considering submitting a short story to magazine, in the unlikely event that it is actually published do they own the copyright to it? Both myself and the magazine are in the UK. I’ve tried checking their website and googling bit what I’ve been able to find has only made me more confused. Thanks in advance 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/2 "2018-04-06T01:06:20Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > I’m considering submitting a short story to magazine, in the unlikely event that it is actually published do they own the copyright to it? Both myself and the magazine are in the UK. > > I’ve tried checking their website and googling bit what I’ve been able to find has only made me more confused. > > Thanks in advance 🙂 No. The author owns the copyright unless the work was specifically commissioned as a “work-for-hire” (which the vast majority are not). The magazine may purchase certain rights to republish the work based on the publishing contract, but this varies by publisher (and is something the author agrees to when letting the magazine publish the story). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/3 "2018-04-06T01:07:52Z")
Typically what is purchased is “first publication rights”, but you should specifically ask the magazine because some of them will get sneaky and claim they own more than that. Reputable magazines will tell you before you submit what, exactly, they are purchasing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/4 "2018-04-06T01:10:26Z")
It depends on the contract between you and the publisher. My company requires outside authors to sign over ownership of the copyright interest as a condition of acceptance. If there’s no explicit contract then you keep the rights by default (unless it’s a work made for hire or you are an employer and it’s your job to write for the publisher), but no sensible publisher is going to accept a work for publication without a contract. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/5 "2018-04-06T01:16:05Z")
My mom was briefly looking at selling short stories to magazines, many years ago. Most of the magazines she looked at wanted all of the rights. _Boy’s Life_ stood out as having very friendly terms for authors, but most of the stories she was writing starred girls, so they wouldn’t have been interested. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/6 "2018-04-06T02:11:41Z")
It depends on the magazine. Some insist on all rights. Others only ask for First Rights. Generally, the less a magazine pays, the more likely it is that they ask for all rights. Most paying short story markes only ask for first rights. Usually the magazine will have that information on their website. If not, read any contract carefully. You generally want to avoid selling all rights, which means you lose control of the work. All rights generally means that you transfer the copyright to the magazine, though you could still be listed as copyright owner, depending on how they set up their contracts. However, you cannot sell the work elsewhere without their permission, and they can sell it without consulting (or paying) you. This would also apply to derivative rights, which means in the unlike case someone wants to make a movie of your work, you get nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/7 "2018-04-06T15:04:12Z")
Here’s a fact sheet on [UK Copyright Law](https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law). Looks the me like the basics are the same as the U.S. You have copyright from the moment you put the work into fixed form. Selling to a magazine would not diminish that right. Payment and use are negotiated by contract. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/8 "2018-04-06T16:22:46Z")
Right, the rights aren’t diminished, but they can be transferred. If you create a work, you own the copyright on it. If you sell that copyright to someone else, now they own the copyright and you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/9 "2018-04-06T22:12:38Z")
Just to clarify for someone reading this thread for the basics, selling “all rights” is not the same thing as selling the copyright. [Selling All Rights: What Does It Mean?](http://www.writing-world.com/rights/allrights.shtml) > [@](#): > > When you write a story, article, or other work, you automatically hold the copyright to that piece. You do not need to register your copyright to “own” it (though this can be important if you must prove a copyright infringement). With that copyright comes a body of “rights” (or “uses”) that you can license or sell to others. For example, you can license “First North American Serial Rights” to one publication, first electronic rights to another, First British Rights to a third, First Japanese World Language Rights to a fourth – and so on. (For a more detailed description of the types of rights you can sell, see Rights: What They Mean and Why They’re Important, by Marg Gilks.) You can sell the piece as a reprint, to an anthology, or even sell the movie rights. > > If you sell all rights, however, you lose the ability to resell that material to any other publisher, ever. You can’t sell it as a reprint, or to other countries, or even post it online on your own website. The publisher, however, can reprint or resell it at will – without paying you another penny. > > What you do not lose is your copyright. You are still the author, and the publisher does not have the right to claim authorship, publish the piece under another byline, or substantially alter (or change the meaning of) the material. All you have sold are the rights to that specific form of expression. This is what sets “all rights” apart from “work for hire,” where you lose not only your rights to a piece but the copyright as well. (When a piece is sold as “work-for-hire,” you transfer copyright to the buyer, who becomes both owner and “author” of the piece.) I’d nitpick the way that last sentence is phrased. You do not sell a piece as “work-for-hire.” “Work-for-hire” is the type of contract under which it is written. The piece was never yours to sell. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/10 "2018-04-07T01:05:23Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Just to clarify for someone reading this thread for the basics, selling “all rights” is not the same thing as selling the copyright. > [Selling All Rights: What Does It Mean?](http://www.writing-world.com/rights/allrights.shtml) > I’d nitpick the way that last sentence is phrased. You do not sell a piece as “work-for-hire.” “Work-for-hire” is the type of contract under which it is written. The piece was never yours to sell. So, if I agree to a work-for-hire writing contract, it means that I’m agreeing to hand over this work to the buyer, and the buyer will then own it just as if he had written it himself? (Claim it as his own, change it, decide whether he wants to publish it or throw it away, etc?) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/11 "2018-04-07T02:16:35Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > So, if I agree to a work-for-hire writing contract, it means that I’m agreeing to hand over this work to the buyer, and the buyer will then own it just as if he had written it himself? (Claim it as his own, change it, decide whether he wants to publish it or throw it away, etc?) Yes, just as if you are a reporter for a newspaper. In work-for-hire you have no rights to the work (except to get paid). ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-a-written-story-is-posted-in-a-magazine-do-they-own-the-copyright/811903/12 "2018-04-07T06:57:35Z")
Thanks for the answers everyone! I’ve actually found a contact address for them _(which was hidden away in a non-obvious place)_ so I’ll ask them about it.