# If ACORN is so evil, why did it take 38 years to notice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515 "2009-09-18T00:16:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![twhitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@twhitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twhitt)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/21 "2009-09-18T05:13:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [Nevada Acorn director guilty, Acorn voter fraud, August 19, 2009](http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/nevada-acorn-director-guilty-acorn-voter-fraud-august-19-2009-las-vegas-director-guilty-christopher-edwards-will-testify-against-acorn-amy-busefink-former-regional-voter-registration-director/) Yup, that’s the headline alright. From the linked article, > [@](#): > > …two gross misdemeanor counts of conspiracy to commit the crime of compensation for registration of voters… The crime to which he plead guilty. Compensation for registration of voters. The key, I think, being that the voters themselves were not illegally registered, or ineligible to vote, or ballot stuffers or really anything at all other than voters. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/22 "2009-09-18T05:14:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I posted a link about an ACCORN official who pleaded guilty and you want to change the definition. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Actually, he’s the one insisting on maintaining the definition. Voter registration payola != vote fraud. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/23 "2009-09-18T05:24:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Beck is not evil, or a bogeyman, but he is a savvy entertainer who knows how to play his audience to drive ratings. True. Beck’s been a typical right-wing radio ranter for years. He’s only gotten more attention because he’s deliberately upped the histrionics and drama-queen displays since he joined Fox News (or he’s actually suffering a nervous breakdown). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/24 "2009-09-18T06:08:00Z")
Well, now, the 150 subsidiaries may be sorta true, in fact, likely. ACORN is an umbrella organization, more of a clearing house than a chain of command. They share a general, overall sort of progressive orientation, but ACORN lacks the hierarchical structure of, say, the Democratic Party, with its rigid discipline, and all. So, there may well be 150 “subsidiaries” if they are thought of as the semi-independent units, corresponding in a communal enterprise with a central exchange, though hardly a central command. You go to ACORN for grant writers, its a clearing house for information for that very special, very peculiar breed of salesman, the grant writer. The skill of the grant writer is to describe different projects to different sources of money so as to convince the funder that a given project is precisely in tune with the funder’s Mission Statement. Indeed, denying such funding would be a total betrayal of whatever it is the funder stands for. Its very exotic, esoteric knowledge, not many people have the skills and the contacts, and few small organizations can afford such a creature, nor would they be able to keep them busy. Hence, ACORN. The foundation I worked for was all gooey about American Indians. So, if somebody in one of ACORN’s minions, down the iron chain of command, wanted to do a study on the effects of weatherization on the Pine Ridge Rez, they hand it off the the grantwriter, who would contact us, and probably the Dept of Interior, Energy, and maybe some corporate monster like Enron looking to buff up their image. That’s what an adequate grant writer does, to get a chunk here, a chunk there, get the funding. A truly great grant writer would hit up the Sierra Club as a way of protecting the endangered prairie dog and the polar bear. That’s a real pro! Anyway, the point is ACORN is more a clearing house than a command center. Lefties don’t much like rigid command structures, it reminds them of jail, or detention. They provide access to shared resources that each cadre…I mean, subunit might require from time to time, but cannot afford to employ. So, if ACORN gets the death penalty, there would be a lurch, but projects already funded would proceed, grant requests already written would still be submitted. Before long, the subgroups would coalesce with much the same players in different positions, and it would be pretty much normal again in a couple months or so. Still be fighting over the logo and the mission statement into 2013, but that’s just lefties. Given a choice between rigid hierarchy and constant squabbling, we pick squabbling. Keeps everybody honest. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/25 "2009-09-18T12:39:21Z")
The liberal Democrat-dominated House rescinded ACORN’s funding. If it’s such a great organization, why did only 75 Democratic Congresspersons defend it. Go to the mat for what you all believe in. After all, you outnumber us wacky fringe Righties. We’re done for. Isn’t that right? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/26 "2009-09-18T12:53:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I posted a link about an ACCORN official who pleaded guilty and you want to change the definition. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Dude, you just backtracked from “Nevada Acorn director guilty, Acorn voter fraud” to a simple “pleaded guilty.” Of something that isn’t voter fraud, as your own cite proves. Please take note of the degree to which your cite, and your description of your cite, fail to coincide. OTOH, I’ll give you points for chutzpah in accusing _someone else_ of changing their definition. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/27 "2009-09-18T12:57:53Z")
> [@](#): > > If ACORN is so evil, why did it take 38 years to notice? It didn’t. ACORN has been up to no good for years. [Cite](http://www.nlpc.org/stories/2008/07/28/acorn-admits-embezzlement-scandal-founder-steps-down), [cite](http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6968). The hard Left and its allies in the MSM simply denies for as long as they can, then minimizes until it goes away. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/28 "2009-09-18T13:32:53Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > The liberal Democrat-dominated House rescinded ACORN’s funding. If it’s such a great organization, why did only 75 Democratic Congresspersons defend it. Go to the mat for what you all believe in. After all, you outnumber us wacky fringe Righties. We’re done for. Isn’t that right? Because Congressional Dems haven’t had spines since Reagan. I wouldn’t trust Congressional Democrats to have the courage to cross the street without serious incentive from their lobbyists. I would LOVE to see Congressional Democrats go to the mat for what I believe in. Unfortunately, we don’t hold their purse strings or their ears. If anything, most of the criticism the Congressional Democrats have gotten in the last 16 or 18 years has been from their Democratic constituents…they knuckled under to Congressional Republicans during Clinton’s admin, knuckled under to Bush during his admin, and have again knuckled under to Congressional Repubs during Obama’s admin. I would sing hallelujahs if we could get more than 75 House Dems or 40 Senate Dems to actually advocate and fight for Democratic priorities. ---
**Author:** ![the\_first\_supraliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@the\_first\_supraliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_first_supraliminal)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/29 "2009-09-18T13:44:07Z")
The Acorn employees shown on TV were obviously recruited from the hood where prostitution is open. The employees also looked like down and outers. If they are representative, then the complaints are well founded, as they were indeed promoting illegal behavior. But since they are the only people from Acorn I’ve seen, how am I to know? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/30 "2009-09-18T14:04:01Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > One of ACORN’s specialities has been getting voters registered. In a democracy, this is normally considered to be a good thing. However, increased registration and voter turnout typically favors one party; the Democratic party. You are both right and wrong. ACORN does specialize in getting voters registered but they tend to target a demographic that is favorable to the Democratic party. It’s the selective targeting that hurts the Republican party, not the voter registration in general. It’s also why it’s controversial that it’s getting government money. Even if you don’t believe the targeting is intentionally, it still has a disparate impact. If ACORN targeted trailer parks as hard as they targeted the inner cities, they probably wouldn’t get called to the table. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/31 "2009-09-18T14:17:32Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > You are both right and wrong. ACORN does specialize in getting voters registered but they tend to target a demographic that is favorable to the Democratic party. It’s the selective targeting that hurts the Republican party, not the voter registration in general. It’s also why it’s controversial that it’s getting government money. Even if you don’t believe the targeting is intentionally, it still has a disparate impact. > > If ACORN targeted trailer parks as hard as they targeted the inner cities, they probably wouldn’t get called to the table. Of course, there is absolutely nothing illegal, unethical or improper about ACORN targeting “a demographic that is favorable to the Democratic party” for voter registration – and there is nothing to stop conservative or Pub-friendly organizations from doing their own voter-registration drives in the trailer parks. If they do, I would encourage them – the more eligible voters are registered voters, the healthier for democracy. But conservatives, for some reason, don’t seem to see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/32 "2009-09-18T14:20:29Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > If ACORN targeted trailer parks as hard as they targeted the inner cities, they probably wouldn’t get called to the table. So ACORN specialises in community organisation of just one part of the community? That doesn’t stop another groups organising other sectors. So if someone wants to set up an organisation for the rural poor, that would be a good thing. Why isn’t the Republican leadership seeing that it happens? And, on review, I see **BrainGlutton** has already said much the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/33 "2009-09-18T14:21:32Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > If ACORN targeted trailer parks as hard as they targeted the inner cities, they probably wouldn’t get called to the table. And what irresistible, evil force is preventing a right-wing advocacy group from conducting such voter reg drives in trailer parks? Who is wielding the authoritarian power of the state to keep Focus on the Family from registering voters in places where their particular demographic abounds? Who’s forcing Focus on the Family to be Focus on the Fundraising rather than Focus on the … okay, I have no F-word for that one. Anyway, what’s keeping right-wing advocacy groups out of the voter registration game? It’s certainly not the Left. It’s interesting to note, too, that despite my being a registered Democrat (since last year’s primaries) and having contributed to several campaigns, I never receive fundraising mail from ACORN. Yet, I visit Focus On The Family (or the Family Research Council…can’t remember which) webpage once and sign up for news updates (keeping an eye on the enemy) and I get at least one piece of beggary every two weeks from them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/34 "2009-09-18T14:37:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It didn’t. ACORN has been up to no good for years. [Cite](http://www.nlpc.org/stories/2008/07/28/acorn-admits-embezzlement-scandal-founder-steps-down), [cite](http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6968). The hard Left and its allies in the MSM simply denies for as long as they can, then minimizes until it goes away. Yeah, we ‘deny as long as we can’ about an organization whose existence we only recently became aware of. :rolleyes: Reason why I care at all about ACORN is, as has already been mentioned, they get a lot of poor people registered to vote, which I regard as a Good Thing. Ideally, we’d have a system where state governments ensured that every adult citizen over 18 that showed up on Federal records or their own records as living within their borders, except in prison, was automatically registered to vote there, unless they were registered to vote in some other state. And then, unless such a system had some big gaps in it, we wouldn’t need organizations like ACORN at all. But that’s not the universe we live in. Anyhoo, per your first cite, it seems as if the brother of an ACORN founder embezzled a million bucks from ACORN, and the organization covered it up. This is certainly a Bad Thing, because it surely leaves the organization with fewer resources to apply to voter registration. But why I should want them to stop registering voters on account of this, I have no idea. It’s a job I’d rather see someone with a dubious reputation do, than have it go undone. Your second cite is some right-wing whackjob site, and I can’t see any point in digging down to find whatever claims of ACORN malfeasance they produce. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/35 "2009-09-18T14:42:39Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > If ACORN targeted trailer parks as hard as they targeted the inner cities, they probably wouldn’t get called to the table. If some other organization wants to target trailer parks, they should go for it. They should be warned that trailer parks are hard to target, though. Unlike inner cities (cities are easy to identify, most cities over a certain size have inner cities, and anyone in that city can tell you where they are), trailer parks not only tend to be rural, but scattered all over the place - and there’s nothing remotely approaching a comprehensive list of trailer parks. IMHO, it’s hard to blame ACORN for going after the low-hanging fruit. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/36 "2009-09-18T14:47:37Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Anyway, what’s keeping right-wing advocacy groups out of the voter registration game? It’s certainly not the Left. Actually, they’ve long been very much involved in the voter registration game. Bush’s 2004 win can arguably be attributed to the success of such efforts, which mostly centered around churches. (Churches can lose their tax-exempt status for telling their congregants who to _vote_ for, but voter _registration_ drives in churches are as legal as, well, church on Sunday.) We’re still playing catch-up. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/37 "2009-09-18T14:58:21Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And what irresistible, evil force is preventing a right-wing advocacy group from conducting such voter reg drives in trailer parks? Who is wielding the authoritarian power of the state to keep Focus on the Family from registering voters in places where their particular demographic abounds? Who’s forcing Focus on the Family to be Focus on the Fundraising rather than Focus on the … okay, I have no F-word for that one… Ferrous Homemaker? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/38 "2009-09-18T15:13:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, we ‘deny as long as we can’ about an organization whose existence we only recently became aware of. :rolleyes: Which is my point - ACORN and its people have been doing this kind of shit for years. It’s just that when scandals about lefties pop up, other lefties go into the kind of Denial Overdrive that we see with the latest prostitution scandals. > [@](#): > > Anyhoo, per your first cite, it seems as if the brother of an ACORN founder embezzled a million bucks from ACORN, and the organization covered it up. This is certainly a Bad Thing, because it surely leaves the organization with fewer resources to apply to voter registration. Gad, this shit is funny. Corruption, embezzlement, nepotism, cover-ups - “Move along now! Nothing to see here!” > [@](#): > > But why I should want them to stop registering voters on account of this, I have no idea. Right, right - the mere fact that they cover up the theft of funds shouldn’t affect whether or not they get more money. > [@](#): > > ACORN does specialize in getting voters registered but they tend to target a demographic that is favorable to the Democratic party. Apparently hypocrites, whores and crooks are a target demographic for Democrats. Who knew? 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/39 "2009-09-18T15:15:46Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I was gonna say. I know they claim 400,000 members; how many paid employees do they actually have? At this time a little over 800. They run approx. 60 offices nationwide. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515/40 "2009-09-18T15:18:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > …Apparently hypocrites, whores and crooks are a target demographic for Democrats. Who knew?.. You? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-acorn-is-so-evil-why-did-it-take-38-years-to-notice/510515.md?page=3)