# If after 50 f'n pages, you are still trying to engage SA; YOU ARE DUMB!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2012, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405 "2012-02-01T09:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/161 "2012-02-03T02:20:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I figured it would be a waste of time to think you were being genuine, but hey, I took a shot. > > And no, I haven’t been going on at length about whether or not Paterno knew of the previou naked hugging report, and am addressing it now only because you brought it up. > > But of course you know that already, n’est-pas? 😉 Isn’t your entire premise that Paterno did nothing wrong because he had no reason to know the extent of Sandusky’s abuses because McQuery was an unreliable reporter? I know your answer will be bullshit, but it’s still a sincere question. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/162 "2012-02-03T02:24:44Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > A closer examination of the facts suggests otherwise, … What facts? The ones you’re making up as you go along? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/163 "2012-02-03T02:25:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And I’m just saying that I don’t believe the circumstances and evidence suggest any such thing other than on a superficial level. This is no doubt due to your vast experience in fantasizing about the scenario in question–I’ve no doubt whatsoever that your “examination of the physics” comes straight from your personal spank bank. > [@](#): > > A closer examination of the facts suggests otherwise, which is why in my opinion the number of my opponents in this thread is dwindling, and those who remain, such as the misnomerly named **‘miss’ elizabeth** and **Huerta88** , are becoming increasingly shrill and desperate. Proof that, in addition to being a pedophile enabler who gets off on long, detailed examinations of the “physics” of kiddie rape, **SA** is also incapable of telling the difference between “desperate” and “disgust”. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/164 "2012-02-03T02:25:40Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And I’m just saying that I don’t believe the circumstances and evidence suggest any such thing other than on a superficial level. A closer examination of the facts suggests otherwise, which is why in my opinion the number of my opponents in this thread is dwindling, and those who remain, such as the misnomerly named **‘miss’ elizabeth** and **Huerta88** , are becoming increasingly shrill and desperate. I imagine your ‘opponents’ (or, you know, people who disagree with you), have said their piece and (unlike you, or me for that matter), have moved on. Doesn’t matter. No one wins an argument simply by making the last post; you know that. Your speculations, unsupported by any sort of credentials that might show you to be a credible authority on this subject, are not evidence of anything at all but the contents of your own head. As I have said at least twice before in these threads, this specific incident will almost certainly be examined at length in Sandusky’s upcoming trial. Speculate all you want, it’s your nickel, but the court transcripts will be the most credible record of what happened in that shower, not the silliness you’ve posted here. And that’s pretty much all I have to say on that matter. There, if I don’t respond any further you can claim another poster ran away from your towering intellect. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/165 "2012-02-03T02:26:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > In most quarters, circumstances and evidence which strongly suggest the likelihood that a young boy had not been anally raped by a 6’3", 60-something ex-football coach would be considered good news. But, seeing as how we’re here at the Dope… If outlandish speculation counted as “circumstances and evidence,” my theory that 9/11 was actually a special effect performed with Legos and firecrackers would be met with joyous celebration. All those poor souls thought dead, now resurrected! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/166 "2012-02-03T02:31:17Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > You fixate on the 2002 case. What about the 1998 one? The one where they had Sandusky recorded, apologizing to the victim’s mother? The one where suddenly the architect of Linebacker U, the heir apparent, retired at the prime of his career and never got another job…but kept bringing kids on campus for years afterwards? > > What happened there? The other incidents aren’t the reason Joe Paterno was railroaded out of his job, nor are they the excuse so many of this thread’s posters have used to justify the unthinking hysteria they’ve brought to bear on him. If another thread were created to address those previous instances you’d probably find me among the missing. But in this case I just find the more serious allegations against both Paterno and Sandusky to be lacking in merit. And if you see **Guinastasia** you might clue her in too. She keeps harping on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/167 "2012-02-03T02:33:29Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And McQueary testified that what he saw appeared to be fondling or some form of intercourse. This means that he isn’t sure what he saw. Oh not this horseshit again. The GJ summary of Paterno’s testimony was actually that McQueary told him of (at least in the GJ’s summary, which may or may not be verbatim) of “fondling or sexual contact” (which are not mutually exclusive you dumb fuck). McQueary later testified that he had told Paterno of sexual conduct that was “way over the line” and that he was confident that what he had seen was “some sort of intercourse.” He saw this from six feet away in a lighted area. There is no “unsureness” or inconsistency in any of the testimony and even you can’t be as stupid (oh yes you can) to suggest that “fondling” meant or would be heard as meaning anything okay or non-sexual in that context by a modern American speaker of English. It’s pointless because you’re a troll, but let’s see how this goes among a broad section of reasonably intelligent (but you can vote too!) speakers of American English – > **[Native Speakers Of American English -- What Would "Fondling" Mean In This...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=640731)** > > Doesn’t matter whether you’ve read the Pit thread (you’re kind of lucky if you have not) to which this appertains but I’m (rather pointlessly, I’m afraid) trying to fight ignorance. The scenario is this. You are an adult in a position of some... ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/168 "2012-02-03T02:43:27Z")
Fondling is not intercourse. This means that he couldn’t be sure which it was, which means he couldn’t be plus. Plus he didn’t explain what he meant by fondling. One would think that if he had seen fondling without a doubt he would have known what it was. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/169 "2012-02-03T02:46:15Z")
Paterno kept quiet while someone who was _at the least_ fondling children continued to bring children to the campus. Hardly a railroading. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/170 "2012-02-03T02:53:05Z")
A.) We don’t that he knew about the allegations. B.) We don’t know that if he did know of the allegations that he knew they rose from seemingly inappropriate to skeevy, or from skeevy to criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/171 "2012-02-03T02:59:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > A.) We don’t that he knew about the allegations. That’s a switch. Weren’t you acknowledging all along that McQuery reported the incident to Paterno and Paterno passed this information along? It turned out he didn’t pass it on to anyone prepared to do anything about it, and he had years afterward to address the matter, but chose not to. > [@](#): > > B.) We don’t know that if he did know of the allegations that he knew they rose from seemingly inappropriate to skeevy, or from skeevy to criminal. Are you trying to establish a lower threshold at which the molestation of children is no longer a serious matter? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/172 "2012-02-03T03:00:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Fondling is not intercourse. This means that he couldn’t be sure which it was, which means he couldn’t be plus. Plus he didn’t explain what he meant by fondling. One would think that if he had seen fondling without a doubt he would have known what it was. Dumbass, he never said “fondling or intercourse.” He said “fondling or sexual contact” (or that’s how the GJ summarized Paterno’s testimony) and **later** clarified that he saw and reported “some form of intercourse.” “Fondling” in American English is in no way inconsistent with “sexual contact.” It is a variety or subset of it. Hey, while we’re at it, why don’t you make like Sandusky with a ten year old and check out how my little pole, err, poll’s doing as to what non-retards understand “fondling” to mean as between creepy old men (hey, you resemble that remark!) and boys in a naked touching shower environment. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/173 "2012-02-03T03:01:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Are you trying to establish a lower threshold at which the molestation of children is no longer a serious matter? He’s beginning to show signs of backing off. A year from now, he’ll vociferously deny that he ever defended Paterno and Sandusky. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/174 "2012-02-03T03:03:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Are you trying to establish a lower threshold at which the molestation of children is no longer a serious matter? It’s what he’s been doing assiduously (I said ass) this whole thread, yes. In his probable alter-persona on Penn Live he had the stronger version of this, that child rape is impossible and most allegations of child sex abuse are fraudulent. In such circumstances, it’s really not worth fanning hysteria that will (somehow?) damage both innocent men and boys deprived of naked hugs by taking seriously any allegation of boy rape (impossible) or lesser skeevy contact (everything else, and just nowhere near as bad as rape because it won’t cause the kid to bleed to death). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/175 "2012-02-03T03:13:21Z")
People like you, **Starving Artist** , are the reason why so many victims are afraid to come forward. Where is your compassion for the many victims of Sandusky? And okay, yes, being fondled MAY be better than being raped. Does that make it all hunky-dory then? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/176 "2012-02-03T03:17:46Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Look, other posters have already addressed with you from personal experience that rape is absolutely possible… Have you been listening to **Huerta** again? I didn’t say it wasn’t possible, only that in that in this particular case it is unlikely bordering on impossible. > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Your claims that because the grand jury testimony didn’t mention any of the specifics that you feel are necessary to make your armchair determination of rape, does not negate the fact that Sandusky was seen, in the shower, doing something of a sexual nature, to a 10 year old boy, with rhythmic slapping sounds… McQueary testified that he only heard two or maybe three slapping sounds - hardly enough for a rhythm, IMO. > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Moreso, he has been indicted for raping other children. [Perry Mason] Incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial. [/Perry Mason] > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Yes he did stop, and if you look at reports that McQueary has made about the incident, like I posted in the other thread, he did put a stop to what was happening in the shower. That’s right. So don’t you think that had Sandusky been raping the kid he would have stopped as soon as the door to the locker room was opened or the lights came on, rather than continue to pound away noisily while committing one of the worst and most heavily punished acts in the book, and stopping only after he’d been observed? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/177 "2012-02-03T03:20:05Z")
It doesn’t matter what you think he might have done, he obviously didn’t, since someone caught him doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/178 "2012-02-03T03:22:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [Perry Mason] Incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial. [/Perry Mason] 1. But you’re not a lawyer, dumbass. 2. If you were a lawyer, lawyers only make objections. They don’t rule on them. Here, I’ll help out. “Overruled as retarded.” ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/179 "2012-02-03T03:28:16Z")
See, and that’s the key difference between how SA has approached this case and how everybody else has. Everybody who is not defending Sandusky, not arguing that Paterno had no obligation to go to the police, is going to the grand jury testimony to recount what was actually said. SA has spent a fuck ton of time going, “Well, don’t you think Sandusky would have stopped raping the kid if in fact that’s what he was doing?” “Well, don’t you think that a 6’3” guy would find it incredibly difficult if not IMPOSSIBLE to actually rape a kid?" “Well, if McQueary can’t tell if it’s rape or just run-of-the-mill molestation, clearly he has no fucking clue what he saw, since wouldn’t you know what rape was if you saw it?” Just all of this half-assed speculative garbage “proving” that what was reported couldn’t have been what was happening. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405/180 "2012-02-03T03:32:39Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > **Huerta** is a loon with serious reading comprehension/honesty/hysteria problems. Not a single one of his allegations are correct or supported by fact, including the smaller ones and his surmises as to what my posts imply. He’s a loon, and that’s all there is to it. Never in the history of the internet has the following phrase been more apt and useful: No. U. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-after-50-fn-pages-you-are-still-trying-to-engage-sa-you-are-dumb/611405.md?page=10)