# If all women died **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822 "2007-09-11T19:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/101 "2007-09-17T14:05:13Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Yes. Exactly how much hate there is in the feminist movement is a question for another thread. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. That the book is a product of hate. Just like The Turner Diaries and Hunter are products of hate. It’s possible that the anti-male sentiment harbored by some feminists has some legitimacy. But it’s still ugly. [/QUOTE] Some feminists might hate men–but they are a very small minority. Perhaps the ones you’ve met were angry–wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/102 "2007-09-17T15:17:53Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] Some feminists might hate men–but they are a very small minority. [/quote] What percentage of feminists hate men is a good topic for another thread. But I am reminded of David Duke’s interview on CNN, in which Wolf Blitzer asked “Mr. Duke, do you hate Jewish people?” After a pause, David Duke replied “no.” > [@](#): > > Perhaps the ones you’ve met were angry–wonder why? I’ve never met a feminist face to face who admitted to hating men or said anything hateful about men. Wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/103 "2007-09-17T16:13:44Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] No, you have to use your intelligence and common sense. The Turner Diaries is a work of fiction, but you can make a pretty good guess about the author’s viewpoint from reading it. [/QUOTE] Intelligence and common sense should tell you that a science fiction novel where a plague wipes out men doesn’t necessarily mean the author has man-hating sentiments, even if the author is a feminist. I would consider myself a feminist, and if I ever write a story about a society where most of the men have died out, it won’t be as a result of hating men, it’ll be a fantasy fulfillment bit that won’t end up with the boy and his dog getting hooked up to mechanical semen extractors. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/104 "2007-09-17T16:27:38Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] Intelligence and common sense should tell you that a science fiction novel where a plague wipes out men doesn’t necessarily mean the author has man-hating sentiments, even if the author is a feminist. [/quote] It doesn’t necessarily mean anything, but it’s a reasonable inference. Just like a situation where a vocal Christian writes a science fiction novel in which a plague wipes out homosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/105 "2007-09-17T16:36:19Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] It doesn’t necessarily mean anything, but it’s a reasonable inference. [/QUOTE] No, I’m sorry, there’s nothing “reasonable” about it. Writers write all sorts of points of view they don’t share, all the time. If not, books would be unreadable because there would be no conflict or drama. Not every book is a soap box. Not even MOST books are soap boxes (in fiction, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/106 "2007-09-17T17:17:36Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Writers write all sorts of points of view they don’t share, all the time. If not, books would be unreadable because there would be no conflict or drama. Not every book is a soap box. Not even MOST books are soap boxes (in fiction, anyway). [/QUOTE] Sure. Like I say, you have to use your common sense. Do you agree that if a noted Christian writes a science fiction novel where a plague wipes out homosexuals and all the Jews convert to Christianity, one can make some reasonable guesses about the author’s views? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/107 "2007-09-17T17:28:46Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] It doesn’t necessarily mean anything, but it’s a reasonable inference. [/QUOTE] I suppose it’s reasonable if you hold the unreasonable belief that most feminists hate men. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/108 "2007-09-17T17:42:42Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] What percentage of feminists hate men is a good topic for another thread. But I am reminded of David Duke’s interview on CNN, in which Wolf Blitzer asked “Mr. Duke, do you hate Jewish people?” After a pause, David Duke replied “no.” I’ve never met a feminist face to face who admitted to hating men or said anything hateful about men. Wonder why? [/QUOTE] Well–where are all those man-hating feminists hiding out? (If someone wrote a science fiction novel about the world being destroyed by a comet–would that mean they have a serious desire for the world to end?) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/109 "2007-09-17T17:45:21Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] I suppose it’s reasonable if you hold the unreasonable belief that most feminists hate men. [/QUOTE] Would you agree that it’s unreasonable to believe that most Christians hate homosexuals? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/110 "2007-09-17T18:11:09Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] Well–where are all those man-hating feminists hiding out? [/quote] I don’t think they’re hiding anywhere. > [@](#): > > (If someone wrote a science fiction novel about the world being destroyed by a comet–would that mean they have a serious desire for the world to end?) Probably not. But what if a noted environmentalist wrote about a comet that wiped out humanity? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/111 "2007-09-17T21:27:15Z")
Ah, I see. Tiptree must have hated men, because she wrote a story about how great it would be if all the men died. And the story is clearly about how great it would be if all the men died, because, of course, Tiptree hated men, so that’s obviously what she intended by the story. A implies B, and B implies A, so therefore both A and B must be true. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/112 "2007-09-17T21:39:45Z")
Stephen Fry wrote the book _Making History_ where Hitler was prevented from being born, which meant that the third Reich won. England became a german colony and homosexuality was outlawed in the United States. What does this say about Stephen Fry (an openly homosexual Englishman)? Fiction, especially science fiction, is an exploration of ideas. The books you’re trying to compare “HHWHAP” to are political manifestos. Apples and oranges. This thread is titled _“If all women died”_ do you think the OP hates women and wishes they were all dead? What is the difference between his speculative question and the “what if most men died?” premise of the story? Why does one offend you and the other not? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/113 "2007-09-17T22:13:35Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Would you agree that it’s unreasonable to believe that most Christians hate homosexuals? [/QUOTE] Yes. That’s what I said before. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/114 "2007-09-17T23:31:52Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] Ah, I see. Tiptree must have hated men, because she wrote a story about how great it would be if all the men died. And the story is clearly about how great it would be if all the men died, because, of course, Tiptree hated men, so that’s obviously what she intended by the story. A implies B, and B implies A, so therefore both A and B must be true. [/QUOTE] MacDonald wrote a book where all the non-whites and Jews die. So he must be a white supremacist. etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/115 "2007-09-17T23:32:53Z")
[QUOTE=maggenpye] The books you’re trying to compare “HHWHAP” to are political manifestos. [/quote] How do I know whether something is a “political manifesto” or not? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/116 "2007-09-17T23:34:50Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] Yes. That’s what I said before. [/QUOTE] Ok, so if a prominent Christian wrote a book in which a plague killed all homosexuals and all Jews converted to Christianity, would it be reasonable to infer that the author thinks a world without homosexuals (or Jews) is a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/117 "2007-09-18T00:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Ok, so if a prominent Christian wrote a book in which a plague killed all homosexuals and all Jews converted to Christianity, would it be reasonable to infer that the author thinks a world without homosexuals (or Jews) is a good thing? [/QUOTE] This thread is called if all women died, does the OP hate women? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/118 "2007-09-18T02:17:28Z")
[QUOTE=maggenpye] This thread is called if all women died, does the OP hate women? [/QUOTE] As far as I know, no. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/119 "2007-09-18T03:29:05Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] As far as I know, no. [/QUOTE] So why doesn’t the same logic apply to Tiptree? You don’t know what she’s thinking. What else are we supposed to reply? We don’t know what she’s thinking either. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/120 "2007-09-18T09:18:08Z")
[QUOTE=maggenpye] So why doesn’t the same logic apply to Tiptree? [/QUOTE] Because the context and background facts are different in many ways. Surely you are not saying that one can never ever make a good guess about an author’s beliefs? You yourself seem to admit that if a noted Christian wrote a book in which a virus kills all homosexuals, one could make a decent guess about the author’s beliefs. Now please answer my question: How do I know if something is a “political manifesto” or not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822.md?page=7)