# If all women died **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822 "2007-09-11T19:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/141 "2007-09-20T15:16:23Z")
Moving this to the Pit. **Gfactor** , General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/142 "2007-09-20T18:06:58Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > It does for a large number of feminists, which is one reason why the term has fallen into disrepute. No, it’s fallen into disrepute because fearful, stupid men and women have perpetrated this myth and make otherwise sensible people believe “feminist” = “feminazi man-hater.” This is the same bullshit response people give for using “liberal” as a perjorative. “Card-carrying liberals hate America/want revolution/want to steal your money and give it to lazy welfare immigrant bisexual non-Christians.” It’s the same as thinking Louis Farrakhan or Meir Kahane spoke for all African Americans and Jews, respectively, or that Ann Coulter speaks for all conservatives. They may _believe_ they speak for all, and the media may feed that belief, but millions of average feminists/blacks/jews/conservatives disagree. To move to the subject at hand: a world where either women or men are removed from the stage (by natural or unnatural means) would create an immense significant social, technological, sexual and scientific challenge, which makes the prospect a fascinating hypothetical to explore. An author who wrote about this hypothetical is letting his or her imagination run in a lush, fertile territory. While it’s _possible_ a rare author may secretly enjoy the notion s/he sets forth in such a book, it’s more likely that the author is just exercising a vivid imagination – and hey, if s/he exorcises a few internal demons at the same time, well, so what? It’s no different from a mystery author who secretly casts his ex-wife as the bitchy evil murderess whom the detective must plug with his trusty Smith & Wesson. One of my favorite books as a child was _The Girl Who Owned a City_ by OT Nelson, wherein all people over the age of 12 were killed by a virus. (Fortunately the rather iffy science of this was never explained, it was just there to set up the premise.) In the book we watch as the kids try to figure out how to survive and thrive on their own in a world without adults. Does this mean Nelson must have hated adults and been in favor of mass slaughter, just because it was an interesting hypothetical to explore? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/143 "2007-09-20T18:27:24Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] Either your cognitive processes function–or they don’t. [/QUOTE] Clearly you haven’t read enough of **brazil84** ’s posts, or you’d already know the answer to this question. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/144 "2007-09-20T19:22:51Z")
[QUOTE=choie] No, it’s fallen into disrepute because fearful, stupid men and women have perpetrated this myth and make otherwise sensible people believe “feminist” = “feminazi man-hater.” [/QUOTE] The thing which always confused me about the evolution of that stereotype is that being a feminist does not equal being a woman. You can be a man and be a feminist. This had to be true, since there was a time when women couldn’t vote. Just like lots of white people marched and demonstrated with the blacks in the civil rights era or how lots of straight people support the homosexual cause. If this isn’t true, we need a new word for someone who believes men and women should have equal rights. ---
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/145 "2007-09-20T23:49:44Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] The Wikipedia article [regarding Alice Sheldon’s novella “Houston, Houston, Do you read?”] says that the Earth is almost all female and that the males that do exist are “strangely unmasculine.” [/QUOTE] Actually, the “strangely unmasculine” character is a female who was given androgens in infancy to make her stronger and more athletic; masculinity is a side-effect. So “all-female” is correct. It is obvious that **brazil84** hasn’t read this story, and I have little sympathy for his attempt to interpret it without bothering to find out what he is talking about. I have never felt that HHDYR is promoting or celebrating the idea of a world without men. The sole narrative line of HHDYR is the (all-male) crew of the _Sunbird_, their slow discovery of the cause of the strangeness of the future society in which they find themselves, and their reactions when they realize that they are the only extant males. The “points” of the story are, on the first hand, the contrasts between the all-male astronauts and the macho, “right stuff” attitude of the society from which they came (the first American female astronaut was some years in the future when Sheldon wrote HHDYR), and the more pragmatic, unambitious (and perhaps stagnant) future society; and on the other hand, the men’s (largely unflattering) responses to being the only males left (which range from “cool, more girls for me” to “I shall lead these poor deprived women back to the proper Christian androcentric society”). The revelation that the astronauts are not going to have the hero’s welcome they expect (and in fact may not be allowed to live) is in part a decision on the part of the women that _any_ men would be a negative influence, but also a reflection of the fact that these _specific_ men, because of their innate personalities and because of the characteristics for which they were selected and trained, are poor candidates for integration into the current society. Just to increase **brazil84** ’s dislike, I must point out that Sheldon’s first published science fiction story concerned a “scientist whose concern for Earth’s ecological suffering leads him to destroy the entire human race” 🙂 JRB ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/146 "2007-09-21T00:19:56Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] I think the species would be over, unless we could take fertilized human eggs and implant them in chimpanzee wombs. That technique has not been attempted, however, as far as I know. [/QUOTE] Are you certain that it hasn’t been attempted? Have you _been_ to my part of the world? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/147 "2007-09-21T01:04:28Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] If a noted Christian writes a story in which a virus kills all the homosexuals in the world, can one make a reasonable guess about his or her viewpoint? [/QUOTE] Are homosexuals curently running the world and virtually enslaving straight people in many country and this one until rather recently? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/148 "2007-09-21T02:43:34Z")
Oh, well that makes it okay then. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/149 "2007-09-21T05:08:05Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] Are homosexuals curently running the world and virtually enslaving straight people in many country and this one until rather recently? [/QUOTE] Just so we’re clear, are you saying that men run the world and virtually enslave women in many countries including the U.S. until rather recently? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/150 "2007-09-21T05:14:05Z")
[QUOTE=choie] No, it’s fallen into disrepute because fearful, stupid men and women have perpetrated this myth and make otherwise sensible people believe “feminist” = “feminazi man-hater.” [/quote] Here’s an experiment: The next time I’m at the bookstore, I will pick up a couple feminist books at random and see how long it takes to find a couple hateful statements about men. I predict it will take less than 5 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/151 "2007-09-21T12:35:54Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Here’s an experiment: The next time I’m at the bookstore, I will pick up a couple feminist books at random and see how long it takes to find a couple hateful statements about men. I predict it will take less than 5 minutes. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but, no, but, see, they’re not _true_ feminists because no true feminist preaches hatred of men, and the fact that the books are filed under “feminism” and the writers lecture at universities on the subject of feminism and are called feminists by other feminist writers and hold chairs in women’s studies and so on to the _nth_ degree doesn’t actually make them feminists. I see that **Cat Fight** has now shifted ground to “Yeah, but, like, men deserve it”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/152 "2007-09-21T15:45:36Z")
Anyone who thinks Alice Sheldon is some simplistic “I hate men” feminist is an idiot. Oh wait, it’s **Brazil** “I read on a racist website that the average African has an IQ of seventy, and nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise” **84**. Idiot it is. (Or troll. Could anyone really be that stupid?) ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/153 "2007-09-21T18:52:46Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Here’s an experiment: The next time I’m at the bookstore, I will pick up a couple feminist books at random and see how long it takes to find a couple hateful statements about men. I predict it will take less than 5 minutes. [/QUOTE] Yeah, it’s amazing what you can find when you already know what you’ll find. I mean, all the best scientists and researchers determine exactly what they’ll find first, and then make sure their results prove their theories. That’s like _totally_ how you advance your knowledge of a subject. I can just imagine how you’ll prove yourself right. “Ooh look, this one says some men have been mean to some women. Ergo she hates all men and wants them exterminated!” Here’s a better experiment: how about picking up a “feminist book” at random and reading it, all of it, without prejudging it? Nah, forget about it. Since so far you’re prejudging this speculative fiction book without reading it, and now you’re prejudging all feminist books without reading them, I’m not too confident of your skills in this area. > [@Larry Borgia](#): > > Oh wait, it’s Brazil “I read on a racist website that the average African has an IQ of seventy, and nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise” 84. Idiot it is. (Or troll. Could anyone really be that stupid?) Holy shit. And I’ve been responding like he’s a normal person. Are you serious with this? Then again, when a guy has decided to post like a motherfuck (seriously: 880+ since _May_??), it’s inevitable that he’ll come up with a few doozies. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/154 "2007-09-21T19:03:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, it’s amazing what you can find when you already know what you’ll find. I mean, all the best scientists and researchers determine exactly what they’ll find first, and then make sure their results prove their theories. That’s like totally how you advance your knowledge of a subject. Ok, this response totally made my day. Kudos to you,\*\* choie.\*\* WRT the hijack, there is some serious batshit insanity going on here, but considering all the cogent arguments that have _already_ been advanced against the premise that feminism=man hating, it really does just seem like a waste of breath. I’m always just so sad when people turn perfectly rational discussions into yet another Battle of the Sexes. There is rarely so much vitriol on this board as there is when we talk gender. This seems as good of evidence as any that we have a long way to go toward mutual respect and equality. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/155 "2007-09-21T19:03:30Z")
[QUOTE=choie] Yeah, it’s amazing what you can find when you already know what you’ll find. I mean, all the best scientists and researchers determine exactly what they’ll find first, and then make sure their results prove their theories. [/quote] There’s nothing wrong with making a prediction. > [@](#): > > I can just imagine how you’ll prove yourself right. “Ooh look, this one says some men have been mean to some women. Ergo she hates all men and wants them exterminated!” I’ll try to quote the book here. > [@](#): > > Here’s a better experiment: how about picking up a “feminist book” at random and reading it, all of it, without prejudging it? I started to do that actually with Susan Brownmiller’s “Against our Will.” But I didn’t last too long after reading her say something like “rape is a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear.” Sorry, but that’s hateful. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/156 "2007-09-21T19:19:38Z")
A book from 1975, _the_ most radical book at the time, too? Yeah, that was a fair shot. Y’know, I was gonna give this here Christianity thing a try. Then I picked up this book by James Dobson and I was all, “buh?” Man, those Christians are _freaks_. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/157 "2007-09-21T19:39:50Z")
[QUOTE=choie] A book from 1975, _the_ most radical book at the time, too? Yeah, that was a fair shot. [/quote] What can I say - I picked the book up at random. But I know the drill. Susan Brownmiller isn’t a True Feminist. > **[No true Scotsman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)** > > No true Scotsman, or appeal to purity, is an informal fallacy in which one modifies a prior claim in response to a counterexample by asserting the counterexample is excluded by definition. Rather than admitting error or providing evidence to disprove the counterexample, the original claim is changed by using a non-substantive modifier such as "true", "pure", "genuine", "authentic", "real", or other similar terms. Philosopher Bradley Dowden explains the fallacy as an "ad hoc rescue" of a refuted g... ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/158 "2007-09-21T21:10:44Z")
DNFT moron. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/159 "2007-09-21T21:48:47Z")
[QUOTE=choie] Holy shit. And I’ve been responding like he’s a normal person. Are you serious with this? Then again, when a guy has decided to post like a motherfuck (seriously: 880+ since _May_??), it’s inevitable that he’ll come up with a few doozies. [/QUOTE] [Here’s the thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=435906&page=4&pp=50). I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry over the people that are seriously and thoughtfully responding to his nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/160 "2007-09-21T21:56:34Z")
For some reason I linked to page four of the thread. Here’s a better link. (missed edit window.) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=435906&page=1&pp=50](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=435906&page=1&pp=50) You have to scroll down for a while before the thread takes a turn into crazy land. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822.md?page=9)