# If all women died **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822 "2007-09-11T19:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/161 "2007-09-21T22:09:22Z")
[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th] I’m always just so sad when people turn perfectly rational discussions into yet another Battle of the Sexes. There is rarely so much vitriol on this board as there is when we talk gender. This seems as good of evidence as any that we have a long way to go toward mutual respect and equality. [/QUOTE] Well a “battle of the sexes” is what brought the question up in the first place. Although that was pretty much joking and not hateful. Every once in a while I enjoy a “quit thinking with your penis”, “how’d you get out of the kitchen?” ribbing. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/162 "2007-09-22T19:14:56Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] I see that **Cat Fight** has now shifted ground to “Yeah, but, like, men deserve it”. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Don’t put words in my replies. I was trying to point out that writing a story about, say, men disappearing and women ruling the world seems almost obvious since it is quite clear that it is currently run by men. It’s flipping a situation on its head. People wonder about it all the time, ‘What if the world were run by women?’ Whereas eliminating homosexuals from existence in a story is pretty much just choosing a group that’s already pretty victimized and, well, already eliminated (e.g. stoned to death, forced to lie) in some countries. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/163 "2007-09-23T10:05:46Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] Don’t put words in my replies. I was trying to point out that writing a story about, say, men disappearing and women ruling the world seems almost obvious since it is quite clear that it is currently run by men. It’s flipping a situation on its head. People wonder about it all the time, ‘What if the world were run by women?’ Whereas eliminating homosexuals from existence in a story is pretty much just choosing a group that’s already pretty victimized and, well, already eliminated (e.g. stoned to death, forced to lie) in some countries. [/QUOTE] Here’s what you said before: > [@](#): > > Are homosexuals curently running the world and virtually enslaving straight people in many country and this one until rather recently? Just so we’re clear, are you saying that men run the world and virtually enslave women in many countries including the U.S. until rather recently? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/164 "2007-09-23T20:50:42Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] Don’t put words in my replies. I was trying to point out that writing a story about, say, men disappearing and women ruling the world seems almost obvious since it is quite clear that it is currently run by men. It’s flipping a situation on its head. People wonder about it all the time, ‘What if the world were run by women?’ [/quote] If you say so. But it seems to me that if you wanted to flip the situation on its head, you would write a story about a world run by women _without_ having to “disappear” the men to make it happen. Women ruling a man-free world - or a world in which men have been emasculated by authorial fiat - is not “flipping the situation on its head”. Your quote - which **brazil84** has quoted in the previous post, so I shan’t reiterate it - read to me as an argument against the offensiveness of writing a story about the elimination of men. This was being compared to the offensiveness of a putative story about the elimination of homosexuals (or Jews, or blacks, or what you will) - stories which no-one would deny would be evidence of despicable bigotry on the part of the author. Your quote seemed to imply that because homosexuals are innocent of “enslaving” straights, while men are guilty of enslaving women, homosexuals deserve to be protected from such bigotry while men are fair game for it. Now possibly I was barking up the wrong tree, but I don’t believe it was such a stretch, at that. > [@Cat Fight](#): > > Whereas eliminating homosexuals from existence in a story is pretty much just choosing a group that’s already pretty victimized and, well, already eliminated (e.g. stoned to death, forced to lie) in some countries. And this is intended to refute my supposition that what you meant was “Well, men are fair game”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/165 "2007-09-23T23:16:12Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Just so we’re clear, are you saying that men run the world and virtually enslave women in many countries including the U.S. until rather recently? [/QUOTE] If this is some sort of shocking revelation to anyone, don’t venture into the Jena 6 thread. Again, I didn’t intend to make this a case of ‘all men deserve ito die,’ but whatever. I love to find out what I really meant. Haven’t read the sci-fi stories in question (though am interested in the biology), so at this point I’m pretty much just defending anyone’s right to write a story about men disappearing/dying out without being labeled a man hater. And I don’t imagine a homophobic author would write about all homsoexuals disappearing and have the moral be that it takes all kinds, whereas it seems not one of these stories paints an absolute utopian picture of male-free existence. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/166 "2007-09-24T00:26:01Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] If this is some sort of shocking revelation to anyone, don’t venture into the Jena 6 thread. [/quote] I don’t understand that. Are you saying yes? What do the Jena 6 have to do with this? They are men, so they take part in running the world? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2007, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/167 "2007-09-24T14:29:21Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Clearly you haven’t read enough of **brazil84** ’s posts, or you’d already know the answer to this question. [/QUOTE] This thread was not yet in The Pit when I made my comment about \*\*brazil84’s \*\* “cognitive functions.” Now I don’t have to pretend to be nice about his hundreds of threadshitting, hijacking, brainless posts. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2007, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/168 "2007-09-24T14:38:48Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I don’t understand that. Are you saying yes? What do the Jena 6 have to do with this? They are men, so they take part in running the world? 😕 [/QUOTE] No, implying that the same people who doubt the prevailing white-on-black racism in America also tend to express doubts over women’s subjugation. But I could be inferring incorrectly. And I wouldn’t want to do that. Also, I’m not sure it’s automatically misandrist (or misogynist) to hypothesize that the only world in which women might rule is one where men have died out, if only because of body size/strength. (Ugh. Debating over something I’ve never read before mentioned in a thread started from a espectable view point. No wonder I rarely venture into the Pit). ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2007, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/169 "2007-09-24T14:48:05Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] No, implying that the same people who doubt the prevailing white-on-black racism in America also tend to express doubts over women’s subjugation. But I could be inferring incorrectly. And I wouldn’t want to do that. Also, I’m not sure it’s automatically misandrist (or misogynist) to hypothesize that the only world in which women might rule is one where men have died out, if only because of body size/strength. [/quote] Don’t see why. Gorillas are way bigger and stronger than we are, and they don’t rule. One would hypothesise that a world in which women might rule would be one in which _some_ subculture flirted with the notion, and proceed to out-compete all other cultures in the world, through the superiority of women’s empathy, cooperation, or whatever other virtues women possess that men do not. In other words, a world in which gynocracy is for the good of all. If you can’t imagine such a world, it’s not for me to fill in for your lack of imagination. 😛 > [@Cat Fight](#): > > (Ugh. Debating over something I’ve never read before mentioned in a thread started from a espectable view point. No wonder I rarely venture into the Pit). It’s not your fault, it’s whoever pointed that big phucking gun at your head. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/170 "2007-09-24T15:22:46Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Don’t see why. Gorillas are way bigger and stronger than we are, and they don’t rule. [/QUOTE] Seriously? Seriously? No one made me come in here, you’re right, and I will now use my wonderful free will to leave. I’m going to need a good or even great debate to wash my mind out. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/171 "2007-09-24T15:53:40Z")
Totally off-topic, but I always wondered how “femininists” would react if some people (mostly men, but some women) started going around preaching about masculinism and saying it meant both sexes should be equal. Something tells me the howls of the offended would never stop. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/172 "2007-09-24T18:29:56Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] Seriously? Seriously? No one made me come in here, you’re right, and I will now use my wonderful free will to leave. I’m going to need a good or even great debate to wash my mind out. [/QUOTE] Well, just as you like. It’s true that in GD you can flounce out of a thread and not have people say things like “Heat, kitchen” or “Door, ass”, at least not without earning the justified wrath of the Mods, but I don’t believe you come out of the situation with any more respect, at that, 'cos no-one can stop people _thinking_ it. Indeed, it’s not as if you’d been subjected to undue Pittery in this thread. I mean, I’ve seen some name-calling going on, but not at you, and the worst of it, I thought, while this thread was still over in GQ. Also you’ll find even (or especially) in GD that responding to one single sentence and ignoring the rest of a post won’t be viewed as shit-hot debating technique either. You might have thought that the part about gorillas was the key plank of my argument, but I would have thought that the context tended to suggest otherwise. Even among humans, leadership isn’t automatically correlated with size and strength - neither Napoleon nor Hitler were exactly giants, and while I wouldn’t hold either up as ornaments to the human condition, it can’t be denied that they dominated their respective societies extremely effectively. I still find myself left with my supposition that when a woman writes a story about a world without men, it’s not because she wants to write a story about a flipping of the usual gender roles, but because she wants to write a story about a world without men. As I said above (and as you chose to ignore), you could find another way to write about a world in which women ruled - and if the claims for feminism were to be taken seriously, it would be a world in which both genders were equally happy and fulfilled. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822/173 "2007-09-24T20:33:30Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] No, implying that the same people who doubt the prevailing white-on-black racism in America also tend to express doubts over women’s subjugation. [/quote] I’m just trying to figure out what you are saying. Are you saying that men run the world and virtually enslave women in many countries including the U.S. until rather recently? It’s a simple yes or no question. And by the way, I agree that there is a lot of racism in the United States among whites (and blacks too). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-all-women-died/418822.md?page=8)