# If Ancient Greek had no lowercase forms of letters, why are so many texts in Ancient Greek written with letters in their lowercase counterparts instead of their uppercase counterparts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 10, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389 "2023-12-10T23:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389/1 "2023-12-10T23:23:02Z")
Uppercase letters were only introduced later. There was no distinction between lowercase and uppercase letters, it was all uppercase. If that’s the case, why are so many texts written in lowercase letters instead of uppercase letters? ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389/2 "2023-12-10T23:45:54Z")
What texts are you referring to? Lowercase was developed by Christian monastic scribes so obviously any document that contains lowercase text does not date from ancient Greece. The oldest surviving Greek texts are on pottery or stone and are written in uppercase. Anything that’s on papyrus or paper is much later. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389/3 "2023-12-11T13:17:04Z")
I suspect **Jagraze1** means all those Loeb Classical Library volumes and the like, in which the Greek is all set in lower case type (except for chapter titles and the like) Putting it all in caps would be, as with English on the internet, like SHOUTING. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389/4 "2023-12-11T17:00:09Z")
If the question is why _modern_ editions of ancient Greek texts are printed with lowercase, then, yes, it’s because it would make it harder for the modern audience to read, for no reason. The same reason modern editions of Shakespeare generally don’t use the [long S](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s) and don’t print I and J identically, even though the First Folio did. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389/5 "2023-12-12T09:01:14Z")
It’s not even just modern versions of old Greek texts. Pretty much as soon as miniscule (lowercase) was introduced into Greek (in the 9th and 10th centuries), people started copying books using the newer letter forms. I have a confession: until very recently, I thouhgt Koine Greek was written using miniscule, as that is how I had always seen it. This thread is what made me go and look up the oldest New Testament source we had, to see it does in fact use Greek majuscule (uppercase). ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389/6 "2023-12-12T11:53:08Z")
Nitpick (pet peeve): minuscule, not miniscule. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389/7 "2023-12-12T23:26:32Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Nitpick (pet peeve): minuscule, not miniscule. ⁢ My bad. I was expecting my spellcheck to catch that. But miniscule is also a word, so… ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389/8 "2023-12-12T23:48:27Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > The same reason modern editions of Shakespeare generally don’t use the [long S](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s) and don’t print I and J identically, even though the First Folio did. Although apparently there was a cooking recipe from back in the day that used a long “s”, very confusingly, in “how to cooke a suckling pig”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389/9 "2023-12-12T23:51:40Z")
It’s not like it’s a big mistake. In fact… ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ancient-greek-had-no-lowercase-forms-of-letters-why-are-so-many-texts-in-ancient-greek-written-with-letters-in-their-lowercase-counterparts-instead-of-their-uppercase-counterparts/994389/10 "2023-12-13T15:54:53Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Lowercase was developed by Christian monastic scribes I guess their vow of silence made them tired of all the shouting…