# If Barack Obama really was from Kenya...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860 "2013-07-07T07:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/81 "2013-07-11T23:45:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This has nothing to do with who the President might be. If this is true, then I move the discussion shift from Obama to a what-if about Chester A. Arthur if it was proved he’d really been born in either Ireland or Canada, as was alleged at the time. Would you revisit all Federal legislation from 1881-85? Surely some of it is still relevant today. I suspect magellan has me on ignore. I invite anyone who wishes to ask him on my behalf. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/82 "2013-07-12T01:30:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > **If this is true, then I move the discussion shift from Obama to a what-if about Chester A. Arthur if it was proved he’d really been born in either Ireland or Canada, as was alleged at the time.** Would you revisit all Federal legislation from 1881-85? Surely some of it is still relevant today. > I suspect magellan has me on ignore. I invite anyone who wishes to ask him on my behalf. Don’t be silly, he’s a white Republican. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/83 "2013-07-12T01:40:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I thought Reagan was from Holland. > I mean, why did they keep calling him…? Common mistake. Reagan’s ancestors were not from the Netherlands. The reason he was nicknamed “Dutch” was because he was one quarter Elm tree. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/84 "2013-07-12T02:14:35Z")
Well, that explains the fungus. ---
**Author:** ![johnmont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@johnmont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnmont)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/85 "2013-07-15T22:29:10Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I was reading a humour piece elsewhere on the internet the other day which made reference to the whole “Barack Obama is really from Kenya!” nonsense. > > Since I’m not American, the fact people apparently took the notion seriously in the first place is, well, eyebrow raising to say the least, but it did give rise to an interesting hypothetical (or at least, I think it’s interesting)… > > Let’s pretend, in his big closing address as he finishes his tenure as president, Mr Obama reveals that, by the way, he was actually born in Kenya after all. > > What are the political or legal ramifications of this? I’m not as concerned with the tinfoil hat brigade jumping up and down with “See? See? WE TOLD YOU SO!!1!1”, but whether or not it would create some sort of sitation where some or all of his presidency might be declared invalid retroactively or something like that. > > I’m going to apologise in advance if someone’s already asked this (I’m sure they have), but my thread search with the keywords “Obama” and “Kenya” turned up eleventy squillion results, and none of the ones I could see immediately appeared to address the hypothetical mentioned earlier. This whole idea has come up because of a relatively few people cant accept the fact that a non WASP was elected. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/86 "2013-07-16T01:50:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But all those steps were based on the assumption that he met the requirements. Once he’s sworn in, that issue is settled. That was already explained to you by people who know more about the legal process than either of us. > [@](#): > > I find it odd that the Constitution is crystal clear on this and you and others simply want to make believe the words aren’t there. It’s crystal clear that the Constitution does not say what you want it to say. The Constitution doesn’t leave the president’s eligibility perpetually up for review or say that any laws signed by an ineligible president are retroactively invalid. Once he’s sworn in, he’s president. Sorry. Congress can remove him and it could try to repeal the laws he signed, but that’s unrealistic. There is no process for any of the stuff you want to happen, so you can’t just say “Do over!” and then improvise a bunch of solutions. That’s just as unconstitutional as the eligibility violation we’re discussing if not moreso. Perhaps you could lobby Congress to set up some procedures for how they would deal with this situation if it ever came up, but you can’t just assert that the solution already exists. It doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/87 "2013-07-16T05:01:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Once he’s sworn in, that issue is settled. That was already explained to you by people who know more about the legal process than either of us. > > It’s crystal clear that the Constitution does not say what you want it to say. The Constitution doesn’t leave the president’s eligibility perpetually up for review or say that any laws signed by an ineligible president are retroactively invalid. Once he’s sworn in, he’s president. Sorry. Congress can remove him and it could try to repeal the laws he signed, but that’s unrealistic. There is no process for any of the stuff you want to happen, so you can’t just say “Do over!” and then improvise a bunch of solutions. That’s just as unconstitutional as the eligibility violation we’re discussing if not moreso. Perhaps you could lobby Congress to set up some procedures for how they would deal with this situation if it ever came up, but you can’t just assert that the solution already exists. It doesn’t. I agree it doesn’t exist. You need to admit it doesn’t exist. You’re claiming that it doesn’t exist then claiming that the law is clear on it. Nope. Doesn’t work that way. Imagine that a a NYC Medical Examiner was found to not have the proper credentials. Do you think all the cases he was involved in would not be revisited? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/88 "2013-07-16T05:19:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I agree it doesn’t exist. You need to admit it doesn’t exist. You’re claiming that it doesn’t exist then claiming that the law is clear on it. Nope. Doesn’t work that way. Imagine that a a NYC Medical Examiner was found to not have the proper credentials. Do you think all the cases he was involved in would not be revisited? That’s because cases were decided based on expert testimony. Being President requires no expertise. Being under 35 or born elsewhere doesn’t change decision making ability. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/89 "2013-07-16T05:22:30Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > No - under the law governing births out of the US at the time, the parent had to have lived a certain number of years in the US to be able to pass on citizenship. Obama’s mom hadn’t actually lived in the US the required number of years, because her parents had moved around, so by that scenario, he wouldn’t be a citizen. Where did she live outside the U.S. between her teen years and the birth of Barack? I do not recall any requirement to live in a particular state for any length of time and the family movements of which I was aware were all within the contiguous states until they moved to Hawaii after it became a state. I also do not recall any questions regarding George Romney whose parents had lived in Mexico for twelve years before his birth. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/90 "2013-07-16T12:24:23Z")
Has there ever been a democracy that retroactively declared one of its leaders ineligible (and all related legislation null)? Seems to me the kind of rollback magellan is advocating is the hallmark of military coups. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/91 "2013-07-16T12:27:42Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I agree it doesn’t exist. You need to admit it doesn’t exist. You’re claiming that it doesn’t exist then claiming that the law is clear on it. Nope. Doesn’t work that way. Imagine that a a NYC Medical Examiner was found to not have the proper credentials. Do you think all the cases he was involved in would not be revisited? Where does this desire to not only remove the President from office, but actually _unmake_ his Presidency come from? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/92 "2013-07-16T12:38:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where does this desire to not only remove the President from office, but actually _unmake_ his Presidency come from? Racism. They want to pretend that the country didn’t elect a (mostly) black president. Twice. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/93 "2013-07-16T12:46:44Z")
He’s only halfly black. [/math pedant] ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/94 "2013-07-16T12:53:40Z")
What about the retirement benefits though? If he admitted that he wasn’t really an American citizen, could he be refused the secret service for life and the retirement paycheck? [In 1974, the Justice Department ruled that presidents who resign from office before their official terms of office expire are entitled to the same lifetime pension and benefits extended to other former presidents. However, presidents who are removed from office due to impeachment forfeit all benefits.](http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepresidentandcabinet/a/presretirement.htm) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/95 "2013-07-16T13:15:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where does this desire to not only remove the President from office, but actually _unmake_ his Presidency come from? 1. Respect for the Constitution. 2. Logic ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/96 "2013-07-16T13:20:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > 1. Respect for the Constitution. > 2. Logic There’s some logic to your idea, as a couple of us said earlier. There’s nothing Constitutional about it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/97 "2013-07-16T13:52:34Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > What about the retirement benefits though? If he admitted that he wasn’t really an American citizen, could he be refused the secret service for life and the retirement paycheck? > > [In 1974, the Justice Department ruled that presidents who resign from office before their official terms of office expire are entitled to the same lifetime pension and benefits extended to other former presidents. However, presidents who are removed from office due to impeachment forfeit all benefits.](http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepresidentandcabinet/a/presretirement.htm) That’s a much more reasonable question. Declaring a presidency void prospectively is far less unworkable than doing it back to Inauguration Day. > [@magellan01](#): > > 1. Respect for the Constitution. > 2. Logic (1) is only true insofar as your argument respects _parts_ of the Constitution. It entirely ignores others (and the clear intent of the founders to leave the issue of presidential qualifications to the political process.) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/98 "2013-07-16T13:58:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There’s some logic to your idea, as a couple of us said earlier. There’s nothing Constitutional about it. Again, the Constitution is mum on this. We have to figure it out. Both your idea and mine are attempts to do that within the a Constitutional framework. And neither of them is _un_Constitutional. Yes, we disagree. But if you want to criticize my idea because the Constitution doesn’t say that’s thing thing to do, then you have to accept that same flaw with your and every other solution. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/99 "2013-07-16T14:02:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s a much more reasonable question. Declaring a presidency void prospectively is far less unworkable than doing it back to Inauguration Day. > > (1) is only true insofar as your argument respects _parts_ of the Constitution. It entirely ignores others (and the clear intent of the founders to leave the issue of presidential qualifications to the political process.) It ignores nothing. It acknowledges that the solution has not been outlined and uses logic to craft a solution. As does your idea. It’s just a matter of what we each focus on and emphasize as important. It seems crystal clear to me that that Founders intended that no one would be able to be President if they didn’t meet certain basic qualifications. I glean that from their words stating so. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860/100 "2013-07-16T14:13:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Again, the Constitution is mum on this. We have to figure it out. Both your idea and mine are attempts to do that within the a Constitutional framework. And neither of them is _un_Constitutional. I think yours is- it gives Congress a power that doesn’t exist in the Constitution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-barack-obama-really-was-from-kenya/662860.md?page=6)