# {If} Biden resigns after Harris wins **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580 "2024-08-11T22:58:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/1 "2024-08-11T22:58:39Z")
Could this be a way to ensure that Harris is the POTUS in January even if the results are challenged? Someone has to be POTUS by January 20th, wouldn’t this help while the challenge is addressed? Or could someone like the Speaker of the House take over? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/2 "2024-08-11T22:59:59Z")
If Harris wins (and still exists), she’ll legally be the president on January 20 regardless of what else happens. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/3 "2024-08-11T23:04:32Z")
So why certify the election at all? Why spend so much energy trying to stop the certification? Would Biden remain POTUS until it is certified? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/4 "2024-08-11T23:06:15Z")
It never happened before and it has no real legal basis, this was just an excuse for Trump and his supporters to try and subvert Democracy. This time Trump will not be in power already and so it will be much harder to cause mischief. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/5 "2024-08-11T23:07:14Z")
Isn’t their tactic to send the decision to the House of Representaives? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/6 "2024-08-11T23:07:37Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Could this be a way to ensure that Harris is the POTUS in January even if the results are challenged? No. If the vote is challenged and remains uncertified after noon on January 20, the whoever is President at the time has their term expire. The presidency would go the Speaker until the vote is either certified or taken to the House. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/7 "2024-08-11T23:08:08Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > No. If the vote is challenged and remains uncertified after noon on January 20, the whoever is President at the time has their term expire. The presidency would go the Speaker until the vote is either certified or taken to the House. Cite please ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/8 "2024-08-11T23:17:39Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > If the vote is challenged and remains uncertified after noon on January 20, the whoever is President at the time has their term expire. That’s not what the law says. There is no federal deadline for certification. Rather, each state sets its own rules. For more info see here: > **[Election Certification Deadlines](https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/election-certification-deadlines)** > > The certification of election results is a review done by someone other than the election officials themselves, and it gives assurance that the election results are correct. Certification can be done at the local level but is always done at the state... 17 states seem to not have a deadline at all. > - In the remaining 17 states, the language regarding the completion of the state canvass/certification is vague, open to interpretation, or not specified for at least some offices: Alaska, Arizona, Delaware, Idaho, Hawaii, Kansas, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia and West Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/9 "2024-08-11T23:26:39Z")
Nah. Let Biden take the hit, if any. They refuse to certify, Dark Brandon goes medieval on their collective asses (IMMUNITY!!) and Kamala doesn’t enter office with a body count on her. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/10 "2024-08-11T23:38:12Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s not what the law says. There is no federal deadline for certification. Rather, each state sets its own rules. There is no federal deadline, but there is the federal safe-harbour rule, which says that if the votes are certified by a state, according to the procedures set out in the laws of the state prior to the election, then the results are considered conclusive. Here’s the summary from the Congressional Research Service back in 2020: > **December 8, 2020** : The “Safe Harbor” Deadline > The U.S. Code (3 U.S.C. §5) provides that if election results are contested in any state, and if the state, prior to election day, has enacted procedures to settle controversies or contests over electors and electoral votes, and if these procedures have been applied, and the results have been determined six days before the electors’ meetings, then these results are considered to be conclusive, and will apply in the counting of the electoral votes. This date, known as the “Safe Harbor” deadline, falls on December 8 in 2020. The governor of any state where there was a contest, and in which the contest was decided according to established state procedures, is required (3 U.S.C. §6) to send a certificate describing the form and manner by which the determination was made to the Archivist as soon as practicable. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/11 "2024-08-11T23:53:17Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > > [@Munch](#): > > > > No. If the vote is challenged and remains uncertified after noon on January 20, the whoever is President at the time has their term expire. The presidency would go the Speaker until the vote is either certified or taken to the House. > > Cite please The term of the President is four years: Article II, Section 1, Clause 1. The term of the President expires on January 20: Twentieth Amendment, Section 1. If the President resigns, the Vice-President succeeds to the presidency: Twenty-Fifth Amendment, Section 1. If on January 20, neither a president nor a vice-president has been elected or qualified, then the person designated by the Congress in law shall act as president until a president or vice-president has qualified: Twentieth Amendment, Section 3. Since by this scenario, Harris as VP will have succeeded to Biden, she will only fill out his term. If on January 20, no president has been qualified, then the person designated by Congress shall be acting president until a president has qualified. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/12 "2024-08-12T00:03:08Z")
For which part? > [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s not what the law says. The 20th Amendment says that each presidential term ends on noon on January 20, which answers the OP’s question, full stop. There is no overtime for Biden (or Harris, if Biden resigns) past 1/20/25. The 12th gives Congress until March 4 to figure their shit out, which would likely trigger the Presidential Succession Act, elevating the Speaker of the House. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/13 "2024-08-12T00:05:18Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Could this be a way to ensure that Harris is the POTUS in January even if the results are challenged? Someone has to be POTUS by January 20th, wouldn’t this help while the challenge is addressed? Or could someone like the Speaker of the House take over? The President – whether Biden or Harris as a result of his resignation – has no role in resolving any challenges over the election results and cannot serve past noon January 20 absent their election having been confirmed by Congress. Either by being confirmed as the winner of the Electoral College during the January 6 joint session of Congress to count the electors, or through a contingent election should no candidate be found to have achieved an Electoral College majority. If neither of these conditions are met, the Speaker of the House would become acting President on January 20. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/14 "2024-08-12T00:09:35Z")
So the election will determine who controls the House and could also decide who the POTUS is. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/15 "2024-08-12T00:43:43Z")
The new session of Congress begins at noon on January 3, so it is the newly elected House and Senate that will conduct the electoral count on January 6 and will rule on any objections raised against any state’s electors. If no EC majority is found, the House will conduct a contingent election for President and the Senate will conduct a contingent election for VP. But consider this. Even before they officially convene, the first thing that the House of Representative must do is elect their Speaker – the old Speaker does not carry over. They do this before the members are even sworn it. What if we find ourselves in the same position in January that we did last year, with the House unable to elect a Speaker for days? How does the joint session proceed if the members of the House have not been sworn in? Can it? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/16 "2024-08-12T01:38:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If Harris wins (and still exists), she’ll legally be the president on January 20 regardless of what else happens. I agree. Lots of countries have election-related criminality and violence without democracy being seriously challenged. Jan. 6 was remarkable because of where the attempt to throw the election took place, and it almost delayed the process, but it wasn’t actually up to the level of election violence seen in Mexico or India. And it was not close to throwing the election to Trump. If Harris wins, there will be a lot of GOP attempts to mess up the count, and a few people may be killed. But BigT is correct as quoted. Thr only reason for Biden to quit is if he isn’t up to the job. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/17 "2024-08-12T01:55:32Z")
I’m not quite sure what the OP is getting at, but if Biden resigns it would merely mean Harris becoming president a few weeks earlier than originally anticipated. It wouldn’t have any electoral ramifications, in terms of certifying or whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/18 "2024-08-12T02:16:59Z")
If there is violence after the election and the president has to quell it with force, I would prefer it was the outgoing president rather than the new one who gives that order. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/19 "2024-08-12T09:52:26Z")
The OP has been answered, thanks to @Northern_Piper for his precise reply. I don’t see a benifit in Harris becoming POTUS earlier. And @Elmer_J.Fudd makes a good point. Biden, with his newly granted total immunity protections, could use them to ensure a peacefull and orderly transfer of power and no involve Harris in the muck. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580/20 "2024-08-12T10:13:19Z")
Albeit educational, I really wish I didn’t open this thread. Jeez! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-biden-resigns-after-harris-wins/1005580.md?page=2)