# If both Trump and Biden claim to be the commander in chief? Who will the military obey? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550 "2020-07-07T00:04:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/41 "2020-07-07T21:29:40Z")
> [@ready29003](#): > > Suppose Trump challenges the election to the Supreme Court and loses. But then Trump claims the Supreme Court Ruling is wrong and immediately files an appeal. File an appeal with who? Do you understand why they call it the “Supreme Court”? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/42 "2020-07-07T21:34:42Z")
I sort of presumed that Barr would file some sort of suit that would push the issue in front of the supreme court. (This is what I get for assuming things can go without saying.) Is it impossible to start a case at a higher level of the courts than normal? Regardless, a case claiming that the parts of the constitution calling for the election are misinterpreted would doubtlessly be thrown out of any other court instantly, allowing the appeals to escalate it quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/43 "2020-07-07T21:42:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m not worried about any possibility that requires Trump to have made years of preparation. I have doubts that Trump could even name all nine members of the court. “Nobody knows more about who the judges are than me. Nobody knew there were nine. There’s the very fine Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, I put them there. My good friend Scalia. Then we have the haters like Frederick Douglass and Nasty Ruth. Then there’s Judge Dredd, Judge Reinhold, Judge Roy Bean, and my sister.” ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/44 "2020-07-07T21:47:19Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Is it impossible to start a case at a higher level of the courts than normal? Regardless, a case claiming that the parts of the constitution calling for the election are misinterpreted would doubtlessly be thrown out of any other court instantly, allowing the appeals to escalate it quickly. I don’t think it’s possible to skip district court, but SCOTUS has shown willingness to skip appeals courts when time is of the essence. Trump has tried to exploit this, most recently with the census ruling, and it blew up in his face when the majority decided he was lying about his motivation. Also, SCOTUS recently smacked down a pro-life group that essentially brought back an almost identical case and argument that they had ruled on in 2016. They really, really don’t like when you ask them to change their mind on recently-decided cases. So I think that although parts of the Court are definitely corrupt (Thomas, Kavanaugh, Alito), it seems like the rest of the court has enough integrity to overpower anything truly ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/45 "2020-07-07T21:49:56Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > So I think that although parts of the Court are definitely corrupt (Thomas, Kavanaugh, Alito), it seems like the rest of the court has enough integrity to overpower anything truly ridiculous. Well, yes. Which is why my outrageous hypothetical led off with a purge and restock of the court with the most corrupt and slanted individuals possible. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/46 "2020-07-07T22:10:20Z")
Blackmail the Supreme Court? They are mostly too old to blackmail. With what? Nudie pictures of RBG? Not to mention, our professional military is well aware that Trump on hearing that the Russians were paying the Taliban to kill American servicepeople, are unlikely to violate the Constitution for him. I think they always would be, but especially Trump. The odds are better he’d be carried out in a box. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/47 "2020-07-07T23:09:14Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Well, yes. Which is why my outrageous hypothetical led off with a purge and restock of the court with the most corrupt and slanted individuals possible. Hey man, it’s your hypothetical, I was just unpacking it. It’s become kind of a morbid hobby to ask “what 's the most corrupt thing that could possibly work?” tl;dr Trump (or any would-be President) needs an electoral college victory, certified by a joint session of Congress, on January 6th 2020. With emphasis on “joint” meaning that the House also gets a vote on procedural matters, meaning that Moscow Mitch has a very limited ability to fiddle in the process. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/48 "2020-07-07T23:15:41Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Blackmail the Supreme Court? They are mostly too old to blackmail. With what? I dunno, the real story of who paid off Kavanaugh’s $100K credit card bill, or how Justice Kennedy’s son had oversight over Trump loans at DeutschBank? We all eventually get too old to screw, but it’s never too late to screw up. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/49 "2020-07-08T01:01:10Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > We all eventually get too old to screw Speak for yourself. (Please don’t tell my kids I said this. They still insist they weren’t homemade) ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/50 "2020-07-08T01:21:42Z")
Under my nation’s imperfectly understood system of government, the vice-president announces the winner of the electoral vote before a joint session of Congress on January 6, 2021. What Biden and Trump say about it will not matter. Now, if [the tellers](https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf) add up the electoral votes differently than the vice-president, we are in constitutional crisis, and no one knows the answer to the thread title question. Re the Bonus Question, Gore had no options because the President of the United States, whatever his flaws, was a supporter of democratic norms. The dynamic is different when you have a President with the instincts of a dictator. In that case, which is our case, the absence of reliance on democratic norms will result in falling back to the letter of laws that normally are just a formality. Or maybe Trump will read in the Washington Post that he lost, and give up, just like Richard Nixon did in 1960. One can always hope. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/51 "2020-07-08T07:30:43Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Speak for yourself. > > (Please don’t tell my kids I said this. They still insist they weren’t homemade) It’s not being too old to screw. It’s being too old to be embarrassed by it - or old enough that the reaction is way to go. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/52 "2020-07-08T09:34:03Z")
> **[Trump has a plan to stay in the White House if he loses election, former...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-2020-us-election-third-term-tim-wirth-white-house-a9600486.html)** > > Tim Wirth shares theory on how Trump can stay in White House after election loss Basically, the plan is to suppress votes enough to keep the defeat close, then use claims of election rigging as an excuse for Republican governments in states won by Biden to not send delegates to the electoral college. That way noone would get a majority in the electoral college and the presidency would be decided by the house of representatives on a one-state-one-vo ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/53 "2020-07-08T11:13:23Z")
High-ranking military officers have pensions; do you really think they’d do anything to risk them? They’ll follow the letter of the law, cover their asses, and won’t rock the boat. They have nothing to gain by taking radical action. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/54 "2020-07-08T13:55:08Z")
Yes Ready, if the _entire system_ is totally 100% corrupt from top to bottom, SCOTUS, congress, the military, everything, Trump could still be president if he lost the election. But that’s what it would take. No need to do what ifs or buts if that is truly the case. That would mean dictatorship in the USA and the separation of powers is not real. You’re welcome to believe that’s the case, but pretty much nobody else does. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/55 "2020-07-08T14:38:51Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Yes Ready, if the _entire system_ is totally 100% corrupt from top to bottom, SCOTUS, congress, the military, everything, Trump could still be president if he lost the election. I recall a thread years ago in which the arguments and counter-arguments arrived at the point of “but what if the conspiracy dominates and controls all the relevant bodies” and someone brilliantly answered something to the effect of: “Then that’s not a conspiracy. It’s the Establishment, and _you_ are the subversive.” ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/56 "2020-07-08T14:40:15Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I recall a thread years ago in which the arguments and counter-arguments arrived at the point of “but what if the conspiracy dominates and controls all the relevant bodies” and someone brilliantly answered something to the effect of: “Then that’s not a conspiracy. It’s the Establishment, and _you_ are the subversive.” Agreed. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/57 "2020-07-08T19:46:18Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I dunno, the real story of who paid off Kavanaugh’s $100K credit card bill, or how Justice Kennedy’s son had oversight over Trump loans at DeutschBank? But these guys have appointments for life, and the current Senate has proven that they simply won’t vote in favor of an impeachment when it’s one of their guys on the line, no matter how obvious it is that they’re guilty. Plus, the Trump appointed justices stood for the job knowing that the Republicans corruptly denied Obama’s last nomination, making them fundamentally undeserving of the job. Plus, looking at Kavanaugh’s dissent on the question of letting churches open during the pandemic, it’s clear he is wholly unqualified for this job, and he has to know that. And yet, he took the job anyways. These are not the sorts of people who care about what you have on them. “Fuck you, I’m in for life, what are you gonna do about it?” is their entire philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/58 "2020-07-08T21:37:44Z")
Reading through this thread (I normally don’t read Great Debates threads), but I’m surprised that nobody has raised the possibility that Trump will raise his appeals to the World Court, and when that fails, he’ll appeal to the _Interplanetary Court_, and then the **_Intergalactic Court_**. You know he will. He personally approved the ~~Starfleet~~ Space Force logo, and he’s got Klingon and Gorn lawyers itchin’ to fight–they’re “tough,” “winners,” and “good people.” He’s got hyoooooge plans for the Universe. Bigly. Tripler His Attorney General is obviously Mon Calamari. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/59 "2020-07-08T22:02:56Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Blackmail the Supreme Court? They are mostly too old to blackmail. With what? Nudie pictures of RBG? Considering two of the current justices were credibly accused of sexual assault during their confirmation hearings, it seems hard to imagine what there’s still left that you could threaten to blackmail them with. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550/60 "2020-07-08T22:42:20Z")
Their family could be blackmailed, and of course there are other forms of coercion, like threats and bribery. (Which again, could be directed towards family - vote the way we want and your kid gets a free cuisinart!) Not to say that any of this is happening, but it remains the fact that ve haff vays uf makink you vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-both-trump-and-biden-claim-to-be-the-commander-in-chief-who-will-the-military-obey/914550.md?page=4)