# If Bush were on a "Mission from God", does it matter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104 "2005-10-06T21:51:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/21 "2005-10-06T23:19:26Z")
> [@Lightnin'](#): > > If somebody said, “God told me to kill that guy”, we’d lock him up. > > But if someone says, “God told me to invade a country and order our soldiers to kill THOSE soldiers”, he gets elected. > > And that sounds right to you? Is it the sheer _scale_ of the insanity that makes it sane? It’s about as right as godless infidel telling me what to do based upon a mistaken belief that atheism is somehow MORE rational than believing in God. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/22 "2005-10-06T23:20:46Z")
> [@Lightnin'](#): > > But if someone says, “God told me to invade a country and order our soldiers to kill THOSE soldiers”, he gets elected. I don’t think he would get elected. Like **Dio** said, if a president tried to commit troops for that reason, it would severely undermine his credibility, and cause a giant backlash. But it wouldn’t be a First Amendment violation. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/23 "2005-10-06T23:23:16Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > If Bush were on a “Mission from God”, does it matter? He ain’t got the sunglasses or hat, though he may own a black suit. Still, he can’t carry a tune. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/24 "2005-10-07T00:02:35Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > What I wonder about is: Say it could be proven that Bush really said this to foreign dignitaries. Does it matter in any actionable way? The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment says nothing about what ought to motivate the President in his executive duties. Indeed, it might empower the Executive to conflate foreign policy and “free exercise” of his religious convictions. > > I guess my question can be summed up thusly: Does the President have the right to, say, invade another country, if he feels God is telling him to do so? Of course, the President, for all practical purposes, would have to have other reasons (ostensibly, at least), but can some belief in a divine command to act legitimately be part of the decision-making process? If the president admitted as much, would he be in legal violation of anything? Actionably in what way? Congress authorized Bush to use force in Iraq, and so he acted acording to US laws. The constitution doesn’t place any requirements on Congress that they wage war for only specific reasons. The President doesn’t have any right to invade a country, period. If he doesn’t have authorization from Congress, it doesn’t matter what his motivation is. If he does have authorization, then it also doesn’t matter what the motivation is. All that matters is authorization from Congress. In the case of Iraq, Bush had such authorization. Now, cue the folks who are going to scream that Congress either didn’t authorize the invasion of Iraq, or that they vilolated US law in doing so. To that, I say, tell it to the court. Until and unless the SCOTUS rules on this issue, we assume the action to be constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/25 "2005-10-07T00:29:05Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It’s about as right as godless infidel telling me what to do based upon a mistaken belief that atheism is somehow MORE rational than believing in God. > > Erek Wait, wait… you think that believing in something without any proof thereof is _rational_? And when was the last time a “godless infidel” in a position of authority told you to do anything? Last time I checked, most politicians in the current administration got elected on the “faith and blood” platform- I can’t even think of a single avowed atheist politician. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/26 "2005-10-07T00:52:10Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Only if the law fails Lemon or Agostini. If I vote for a law saying that everyone who makes X per month gets food stamps, and the reason I do is because Jesus wants me to feed the poor, the fact that that’s my motivation doesn’t make the law unconstitutional. The law has a secular purpose, doesn’t restrict the food stamps to a specific religion, etc. > > If, on the other hand, we pass a law mandating prayer in public schools because we think Jesus wants people to pray, that law would be unconstitional. But that law would be equally unconstitutional if we passed it because we thought listening to kids pray sounded pretty. Got it! ::runs off to read up on Lemon and Agostini again…:: And thanks also **Dio** … ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/27 "2005-10-07T00:59:28Z")
> [@Lightnin'](#): > > Wait, wait… you think that believing in something without any proof thereof is _rational_? No, I do not that’s why I don’t think atheism is any more rational. > [@](#): > > And when was the last time a “godless infidel” in a position of authority told you to do anything? Last time I checked, most politicians in the current administration got elected on the “faith and blood” platform- I can’t even think of a single avowed atheist politician. That’s true, my point simply is that to me atheism is just another religious preference, and that the dogma that it is not a religion has yet to sway me, and that to try an eliminate someone based upon God as a motivation would leave only atheists, and that would be the government respecting one religion (atheism) over all others. Erek ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/28 "2005-10-07T01:07:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > No, I do not that’s why I don’t think atheism is any more rational. > > That’s true, my point simply is that to me atheism is just another religious preference, and that the dogma that it is not a religion has yet to sway me, and that to try an eliminate someone based upon God as a motivation would leave only atheists, and that would be the government respecting one religion (atheism) over all others. > > Erek “Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.” — Don Hirschberg ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/29 "2005-10-07T01:28:57Z")
\*\*_Jane Doe_: \*\* The Bush Brothers? Shiiit. They still owe you money, fool. they’re having 2 wars now. You ain’t goin’ back out on the road and playin’ them old two-bit war against terra (twat), and y’ain’t gonna go slidin’ around witcho ol’ white crony friends. **_Jeb_:** Ma’am, would it make you feel any better if we told you that what we’re asking John Doe to do is a holy thing? **_Dubya_:** We’re on a mission from God. **_Jane Doe_:** Don’t you blaspheme in here. Don’t you blaspheme in here. This is my country, this is my faith, and you two are gonna turn around and walk right out of here - without your dry yellow cake, without your Bin forgotten Ladden, and without your New Orleans Guitar! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/30 "2005-10-07T01:37:05Z")
i’m going to dispense with all the legal and constitutional stuff and just say he is full of shit. He’s never told the truth before, so why is he telling the truth now? Besides, out of all the people in the world, why would God choose him? Maybe God told me to say that? “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.” Exodus 20:7 Deuteronomy, 18:19, 20. “And it will be the man who does not listen to My words, but who speaks in My name, I will inquire from him. However, a prophet who sinfully speaks a matter in My name which I did not command to speak and he speaks in the name of other God’s, you must kill that prophet.” “The enemy is not conservatism. The enemy is not liberalism. The enemy is bullshit.” – Lars Erik-Nelson ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/31 "2005-10-07T01:49:04Z")
My problem with this “God told me so” bullshit is that it can be used to justify almost any seemingly irrational action. God told me to: - cut taxes on the rich - take a five week vacation at my “ranch” - start drinking again - ignore all evidence of global warming - go on **Extreme Makeover** See how easy it makes all your decisions? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/32 "2005-10-07T01:55:44Z")
Maybe God told you to say that too. I mean how could anyone disprove it? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/33 "2005-10-07T02:01:03Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > “Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.” — Don > Hirschberg Yeah, that sort of propaganda has worked pretty well so far as atheists have tried to find any way to explain why they should be the ones listened to and others should not. However, your quote is incorrect calling agnosticism a religion would be like calling blad a hair color. Atheism is a testimonial of a very specific belief that cannot be verified in any way shape or form, so it is in fact a doctrine of faith, despite what it’s adherents would like to believe. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/34 "2005-10-07T02:01:10Z")
Apparently, God is playing a big joke on all of us. He tells the 9/11 hijackers to fly planes into the WTC, and then goes and tell George W. Bush to invade countries and use 9/11 as an excuse to do so. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/35 "2005-10-07T02:02:20Z")
I’d be more concerned that actually believing he hears the voice of supernatural beings is a sign of insanity/mental instability. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/36 "2005-10-07T02:09:13Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Atheism is a testimonial of a very specific belief that cannot be verified in any way shape or form, so it is in fact a doctrine of faith, despite what it’s adherents would like to believe. Start a fucking thread detailing why you think atheists are some dogmatic group, each member of which agrees on a specific line of though, and stop hijacking threads, please. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/37 "2005-10-07T02:23:20Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Atheism is a testimonial of a very specific belief that cannot be verified in any way shape or form, so it is in fact a doctrine of faith, despite what it’s adherents would like to believe. Does this mean that everything that I do that has absolutely nothing to do with a supreme being supports my faith and is thus constitutionally protected AND tax deductible? Sweet. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/38 "2005-10-07T02:23:33Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Start a fucking thread detailing why you think atheists are some dogmatic group, each member of which agrees on a specific line of though, and stop hijacking threads, please. How is it hijacking a thread when the thread is about whether or not our president should be influenced by God? Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/39 "2005-10-07T02:24:37Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Does this mean that everything that I do that has absolutely nothing to do with a supreme being supports my faith and is thus constitutionally protected AND tax deductible? Sweet. I think I’d go with the Church of Satan on this one and say that no church should be able to get tax breaks. Or else go with the anarchists and say that no one should pay taxes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104/40 "2005-10-07T02:33:04Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Start a fucking thread detailing why you think atheists are some dogmatic group, each member of which agrees on a specific line of though, and stop hijacking threads, please. Oh yeah, and I wouldn’t paint all atheists with one brush if I didn’t see multiple threads where atheists are whining about the bad job the “theists” are doing with society, and how if only they ran society it’d be so much better because they are so much more “rational”. You show me one atheist debate that doesn’t follow the formula of impugning the rationale of theists, and I’ll concede that not all atheists can be painted with the same brush. However, I see religion getting painted with the same brush all the time, as though all religions are evangelical christianity. There are plenty of smart atheists around these parts, and I give them credit, but they aren’t the ones starting these unutterably stupid threads about the state of society being the fault of religious nutbags. Maybe it’s simple, maybe Bush is unqualified becuase he’s stupid pure and simple. It has nothing to do with belief in God or anything else, he’s just stupid. I know it doesn’t suit the propaganda of “A GREAT NUMBER OF ATHEISTS”. But it might be a little more accurate. Erek [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-on-a-mission-from-god-does-it-matter/325104.md?page=3)