# If Bush were to die in the next couple of weeks... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 31, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360 "2008-12-31T15:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/21 "2008-12-31T18:21:23Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > How much damage could he do in five minutes? > Correct me if I am wrong, but, if during a time of war does the President not stay in office? > Could he simply not declare war on …say Iran.. and remain in office as long as he wants, or would it change hands regardless at this point? I think the people responsible would just lose the paperwork on that one. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/22 "2008-12-31T18:24:00Z")
Counting Grover Cleveland as both 22nd and 24th was a ruling by the State Department. Probably the most sensible choice. Otherwise, we’d have to note that the “22nd” president also served AFTER the 23rd. Probably better to simply observe that the 22nd and 24th were the same guy. ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/23 "2008-12-31T18:24:19Z")
Ok, but what about this? It’s called Directive 51 National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive > **[Briefing Room | The White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/)** > > The latest news and information from the Biden-Harris administration. I definitely don’t have a thorough understanding of the American political system I was just curious because I thought I had read it somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/24 "2008-12-31T18:26:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > P.S. The Presidency moves at the instant of death. The swearing in is just a formality. As far as I’m aware, all legal scholars are agreed on this, even though there obviously has never been a formal test. Cheney becomes President at the moment of Bush’s death, even if it is three seconds before midnight. Okay. In the spirit of the OP, say Bush does die of a massive heart at 11:58:37 on January 20, 2009, and it’s in full sight of everyone. Would Cheney really be considered the 44th president for those ninety-three seconds, or would he just be skipped since Obama’s already on the podium? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/25 "2008-12-31T18:31:58Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Okay. In the spirit of the OP, say Bush does die of a massive heart at 11:58:37 on January 20, 2009, and it’s in full sight of everyone. Would Cheney really be considered the 44th president for those ninety-three seconds, or would he just be skipped since Obama’s already on the podium? He really would be POTUS for those 93 seconds, and it would be recorded as such. For all practical purposes, it would be truly academic, though, essentially just paperwork. I mean, how much damage could he do in 93 seconds? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/26 "2008-12-31T18:34:45Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > Ok, but what about this? > > It’s called Directive 51 > > National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive > > [http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html) > > I definitely don’t have a thorough understanding of the American political system I was just curious because I thought I had read it somewhere. It defines how government operations would continue to function under the Constitution. The roles of the principal players (Executive, Judicial, Legislative) are already defined in the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/27 "2008-12-31T18:35:39Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > Ok, but what about this? > > It’s called Directive 51 > National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive > > [http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html) > > I definitely don’t have a thorough understanding of the American political system I was just curious because I thought I had read it somewhere. Scanning through that document, I see this: > [@](#): > > General Provisions > > (20) This directive shall be implemented in a manner that is consistent with, and facilitates effective implementation of, provisions of the Constitution concerning succession to the Presidency or the exercise of its powers, and the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 (3 U.S.C. 19), with consultation of the Vice President and, as appropriate, others involved. Heads of executive departments and agencies shall ensure that appropriate support is available to the Vice President and others involved as necessary to be prepared at all times to implement those provisions. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/28 "2008-12-31T18:36:50Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > Ok, but what about this? > It’s called Directive 51 > National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive > [http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html) > I definitely don’t have a thorough understanding of the American political system I was just curious because I thought I had read it somewhere. Which part of that Directive makes you think that Bush would remain President if we were at war on Inauguration Day? ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/29 "2008-12-31T18:41:43Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Cheney becomes President at the moment of Bush’s death, even if it is three seconds before midnight. Not midnight. You meant to say “noon”: > [@Twentieth Amendment to the United States Constitution](#): > > Section 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, … ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/30 "2008-12-31T19:00:44Z")
You’re right, of course. I was even picturing the swearing in ceremony as I wrote. No idea why my fingers typed midnight. > [@Fish](#): > > So what you’re saying is that there’s some kind of supralight particle called presidention that defies all known laws of physics? The laws of relativity say that no information can be passed at speeds faster than the speed of light. But we’ve known for years that no information reaches the president and that his null-information shield defies all attempts at applying laws… ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/31 "2008-12-31T19:35:55Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The Presidency moves at the instant of death. The swearing in is just a formality. As far as I’m aware, all legal scholars are agreed on this, even though there obviously has never been a formal test. What happens if the new President declines to take the oath? “I’m President now, bitches! What are you gonna do? What? The oath I took as Vee Pee? That was for that office. Ain’t no longer operative. Suck on it, Trebek. Bring me the hookers!” ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/32 "2008-12-31T20:39:33Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > What happens if the new President declines to take the oath? “I’m President now, bitches! What are you gonna do? What? The oath I took as Vee Pee? That was for that office. Ain’t no longer operative. Suck on it, Trebek. Bring me the hookers!” That’s kind of an interesting question. I’m almost sure there’s precedent that the oath is merely ministerial, and that a person can exercise the powers of office even if he hasn’t taken it, but my understanding that’s typically the case only in emergent situations or if there was some deficiency in the oath such that it didn’t say what it was supposed to, but the officeholder did take something that he thought was a viable oath at the time. OTOH, the Constitution does say that office holders shall take the oath. Conceivably if Obama refused to take the oath, the office might devolve on the Vice President through failure of the President-elect to qualify. That would make Biden president, as the VP is sworn in before the Pres, IIRC. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/33 "2008-12-31T22:24:41Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > What happens if the new President declines to take the oath? Wasn’t there a case like this in the 19th century, where an incoming President refused to be sworn in on Sunday and the inauguration had to be delayed a day? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/34 "2008-12-31T23:21:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I mean, how much damage could he do in 93 seconds? Will you stop saying things like that? The mind boggles! ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/35 "2008-12-31T23:30:25Z")
The question isn’t “what’s the worst he could do in 93 seconds?” The question is “what’s the worst he could do in 93 seconds _if he had time to prepare?_” He could sign something in 93 seconds — a stack of pardons, for instance. Worse, to my mind, is that he could claim that his 93 seconds of presidency gives him unlimited authority to censor anything and everything from the White House public record. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/36 "2009-01-01T00:06:52Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > Correct me if I am wrong, but, if during a time of war does the President not stay in office? > Could he simply not declare war on …say Iran.. and remain in office as long as he wants, or would it change hands regardless at this point? As others have said, the presidency changes hands regardless. The US president has no power to extend his term in office. Nor does Congress even have the power to do it, in fact. You’d have to amend the Constitution in order to permit such a thing — and that is fortunately a difficult process. Note that Abraham Lincoln had to run for re-election in 1864, right during a nation-wide civil war. Had he lost, he would have lost, and his opponent (McClellan) would have become president in March 1865. Likewise for Franklin Roosevelt, who had to run in 1944, while World War II was ongoing. I’m sure there are other examples. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/37 "2009-01-01T00:10:07Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > The country has to have a president. If the president dies, the vice president gets sworn in ASAP. Ya think? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/38 "2009-01-01T00:17:39Z")
> [@diogenes the cynic](#): > > he really would be potus for those 93 seconds, and it would be recorded as such. For all practical purposes, it would be truly academic, though, essentially just paperwork. > > I mean, how much damage could he do in 93 seconds? “fire the nukes!” ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/39 "2009-01-01T00:38:57Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > P.S. The Presidency moves at the instant of death. The swearing in is just a formality. As far as I’m aware, all legal scholars are agreed on this, even though there obviously has never been a formal test. Cheney becomes President at the moment of Bush’s death, even if it is three seconds before midnight. > [@Cervaise](#): > > What happens if the new President declines to take the oath? “I’m President now, bitches! What are you gonna do? What? The oath I took as Vee Pee? That was for that office. Ain’t no longer operative. Suck on it, Trebek. Bring me the hookers!” > [@Cliffy](#): > > That’s kind of an interesting question. I’m almost sure there’s precedent that the oath is merely ministerial, and that a person can exercise the powers of office even if he hasn’t taken it, but my understanding that’s typically the case only in emergent situations or if there was some deficiency in the oath such that it didn’t say what it was supposed to, but the officeholder did take something that he thought was a viable oath at the time. OTOH, the Constitution does say that office holders shall take the oath. Conceivably if Obama refused to take the oath, the office might devolve on the Vice President through failure of the President-elect to qualify. That would make Biden president, as the VP is sworn in before the Pres, IIRC. Article II of the Constitution provides: “Before he [the President] enters on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation: [text of Presidential Oath].” While I’m reasonably sure that, put to the test, **Cliffy** ’s reading of the effect of this clause would be upheld, I’ve seen the “What if” arguments posed that: [ul][li]The office of President transfers immediately and automatically to the Vice President on the death of the incumbent President. In the event something happened o Mr. Bush, the moment he is declared brain-dead (no snarky GQ-inappropriate comments, please), Mr. Cheney becomes President.[/li][\*]The President may not _act_ as President until he takes the Oath. This is based on the wording of that paragraph in the Constitution. Hence his first official act must be to locate an official empowered to receive oaths and swear the Presidential Oath. (Note that it need not be the Chief Justice; Washington (both terms), Tyler, Fillmore, Teddy Roosevelt (in 1901), Coolidge (in 1923), and LBJ (in 1963) swore before other officials.[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360/40 "2009-01-01T00:45:44Z")
> [@](#): > > If Cheney were President for 5 minutes, the White House would become part of the legislative branch. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Please explain what you ment by this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-die-in-the-next-couple-of-weeks/479360.md?page=3)