If Bush were to die in the next couple of weeks...

[Shalmanese]

If Cheney was standing behind Bush and they were both shot and killed instantly with the same bullet, would Nancy Pelosi be considered the 44th or 45th President?

[Telemark]

@Glazer

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Please explain what you ment by this?

Cheney has made statements that the role of the vice-president is in the legislative branch due to his role in the Senate. It makes no real sense, but he said it.

[Glazer]

But he would no longer be VP. I can see his argument, VP makes no executive decisions but does preside over the Senate.

[njtt]

If Cheney were President for 5 minutes, the White House would become part of the legislative branch.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Please explain what you ment by this?

Cheney has, at different times, declared the VP’s office to be in the Executive and Legislative branches as has suited his convenience (generally so as to conceal information, either by claiming Executive Privilege or to avoid laws about the Executive Branch producing certain information). It is part of the general pattern of lawlessness of this administration. I thought it was pretty clear that Fish was making a sly joke about this.

[panache45]

@Shalmanese

If Cheney was standing behind Bush and they were both shot and killed instantly with the same bullet, would Nancy Pelosi be considered the 44th or 45th President?

It depends what direction the bullet came from. If it came from the front, Bush was hit first, and (presumably) died first. Cheney would be 44th, and Pelosi would be 45th. From the back, she’d be 44th.

But seiously, who would let Cheney stand behind them that close (for obvious reasons)?

[mecaenas]

@panache45

It depends what direction the bullet came from. If it came from the front, Bush was hit first, and (presumably) died first. Cheney would be 44th, and Pelosi would be 45th. From the back, she’d be 44th.

But seiously, who would let Cheney stand behind them that close (for obvious reasons)?

Are you sure that’s right? It seems kinda dumb to me that they’d consider Cheney a President for the 0.0001 split second between their deaths.

[Snnipe_70E]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

Yes, Cheney would finish out Bush’s term, even if there was only five minutes left of it, and he would get the corresponding number in succession.

But come on, how much damage could he do in five minutes?

Cheney?

[Wendell_Wagner]

mecaenus writes:

> Are you sure that’s right? It seems kinda dumb to me that they’d consider
> Cheney a President for the 0.0001 split second between their deaths.

panache45 was joking, I think.

[aldiboronti]

How about this one?

It’s 30 seconds before the swearing-in ceremony. The clouds part and twin lightning bolts strike from the sky. Horror upon horror! Barack Obama and Joe Biden have been vaporized!

Who is President one second after midday?

Follow up. If Cheney was President for a minute or so would he get to give Presidential pardons, etc?

[Northern_Piper]

@Cliffy

That’s kind of an interesting question. I’m almost sure there’s precedent that the oath is merely ministerial, and that a person can exercise the powers of office even if he hasn’t taken it, but my understanding that’s typically the case only in emergent situations or if there was some deficiency in the oath such that it didn’t say what it was supposed to…

We had a discusion on this point back in November, in this thread: Who would become President if Bush were to die right now?. I argued for the position Cliffy is putting forward, and Elendil’s Heir argued that the oath was mandatory even in a crisis.

We did not reach a definite conclusion, other than to hope we never experience a situation where the issue is actually put to the test. :eek:

[Northern_Piper]

@Alive_At_Both_Ends

Wasn’t there a case like this in the 19th century, where an incoming President refused to be sworn in on Sunday and the inauguration had to be delayed a day?

Yes: Zachary Taylor.

As usual, Unca Cecil has anticipated the inquiry: What if the US President and Vice-President Elect Die Before Being Sworn In?:

Some may think improvisations of this sort are a pretty casual way to run a country, but equally strange things have happened before. History buffs will recall the case of David Rice Atchison, who may or may not have been the 12th president of the United States for a total of one day. At midnight on Saturday, March 3, 1849, outgoing president James Polk’s term expired, but incoming president Zachary Taylor refused to be sworn in on the Sabbath and put the ceremony off until Monday, March 5–which meant nobody was president on Sunday, at least officially.

Atchison was president pro tempore of the Senate then, and under the law in force at the time the succession would have devolved upon him, but he wasn’t sworn in, he didn’t do anything presidential (I believe he took a nap), and nobody to this day is really sure if he was president or not. It’s this kind of thing that makes you wonder how the country has gotten this far without somebody conspiring to sell it to the gypsies.

[BarnOwl]

@mecaenas

Are you sure that’s right? It seems kinda dumb to me that they’d consider Cheney a President for the 0.0001 split second between their deaths.

Gov’t death benefits. Mrs Cheney would insist.

[flurb]

@Northern_Piper

Yes: Zachary Taylor.:

Snopes has a pretty thorough article on why Atchison was not, in fact, President for a day.

[Baldwin]

@Aesiron

Okay. In the spirit of the OP, say Bush does die of a massive heart at 11:58:37 on January 20, 2009, and it’s in full sight of everyone. Would Cheney really be considered the 44th president for those ninety-three seconds, or would he just be skipped since Obama’s already on the podium?

That’s 83 seconds, not 93. Invalidates the entire argument. (All these geeks, and I’m the first one to point this out?)

@JFLuvly

Correct me if I am wrong, but, if during a time of war does the President not stay in office? Could he simply not declare war on …say Iran… and remain in office as long as he wants, or would it change hands regardless at this point?

No, fortunately it doesn’t work that way. If you don’t mind my asking, JFLuvly, what country do you live in? I sometimes wonder how strange our political system looks from the outside.

[Seeker_of_Truth_and_Beauty]

@BarnOwl

Gov’t death benefits. Mrs Cheney would insist.

Is there a significant difference in benefits between the President and VP, or am I being whooshed?

[RickJay]

@Jackknifed_Juggernaut

My question was whether Cheney would be considered the 44th president in the history books, for example.

44 does come after 43.

[BarnOwl]

@Seeker of Truth & Beauty

Is there a significant difference in benefits between the President and VP, or am I being whooshed?

Kidding. Sorry. I don’t know either.

[Scuba_Ben]

If Pres Bush were to die before Sen Biden was sworn in as VP, Cheney would immediately become president:

@Amendment XXV to the US Constitution

In case of the removal of the President from office or because of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Note the word shall; the transfer of office is immediate. But nobody in the US government would be silly enough (I hope!) to take seriously any order from someone who comes into office just long enough to hand it over.

It seems to me (no reference handy, sorry) that once Biden takes his oath of office, he’s the VP, even though Cheney’s term hasn’t ended yet.

It also seems to me that if Bush and Cheney were taken out of action at the same time, Heaven forbid, that SotH Pelosi would indeed be Acting President until Obama is sworn in. I doubt she would be sworn in on her own, if the gap is sufficiently small.

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@aldiboronti

How about this one?

It’s 30 seconds before the swearing-in ceremony. The clouds part and twin lightning bolts strike from the sky. Horror upon horror! Barack Obama and Joe Biden have been vaporized!

Who is President one second after midday?

This is easy. Nancy Pelosi.

@Scuba_Ben

If Pres Bush were to die before Sen Biden was sworn in as VP, Cheney would immediately become president:

This is hard. I can’t figure out the timing that you’re suggesting.

If Bush dies before the ceremony, Cheney becomes president. But if Bush dies after Obama has been sworn in, he is no longer president and Cheney is no longer vice president. It doesn’t matter in the least what happens after that, before or after Biden being sworn in. Cheney can’t become president. He doesn’t stay vice-president until Biden is sworn in, if that’s your implication.

[Telemark]

Never mind, I missed some intervening posts.