# If Bush Were to Suspend the Constitution, What Would WE Do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2006, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320 "2006-10-29T11:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/81 "2006-10-31T20:16:08Z")
What does that prove? ```php A few hours later I listened to two young people who work in the film industry talk about how they fully expected this election to be stolen. ``` A couple of liberal kids in college worry that the election will be stolen. Great. That’s a great barometer of the country at large. And where do they get this from? They get it from the Demoratic" spin machine that continues to claim the the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen. And the proof of that. Nothing. The USAToday and the Washington post counted and recounted the Florida elections results every which way they could. And what did they find? That Bush won no matter how one sliced it. Of course the story was buried on page 3, so it was hard to find. But if these two (liberal) papers couldn’t prove the election was stolen, it wasn’t. ```php But when you talk to a range of everyday people, it’s the forest they’re concerned about: Will our system of constitutional democracy survive? And for many, this election is a crucial, desperate test. Because the evidence is that this administration and its allies will do anything—anything—to stay in power. ``` What proof do you have of this? They can’t stay in power and they know they can’t. There is no “subversion of the Constitution.” They are doing what any American political party in power tries to do. It tries to stay in power. The Dems do it to. ```php Can you remember a time when people were so terrified (not an overstatement) about the future of the republic? Everywhere they look they see collapse. The legitimacy of the entire infrastructure—Congress, the presidency, the news media, the electoral process—is in question. ``` Do you really believe this nonsense? Congress is in session. No Soliders in the streets. The Newspapers report what they want. You have free and clear access to newspapers, the internet, libraries, TV, radio. What, exactly has collapsed? Please tell me. Local government? No. State or county government? No. The courts? No. The police? No. The federal government? No. Has anyone really questioned the legitimacy of the government, or the courts? We can all surf the net and find some nutcase with a key board exposing something gibberish. Honestly, this web sit of yours is almost as frightening as the one referenced above. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/82 "2006-10-31T20:17:22Z")
Regret gooned up post above. ^&(%&#%$( work computer! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/83 "2006-10-31T20:27:08Z")
[QUOTE=spifflog] They get it from the Demoratic" spin machine that continues to claim the the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen. And the proof of that. Nothing. The USAToday and the Washington post counted and recounted the Florida elections results every which way they could. And what did they find? That Bush won no matter how one sliced it. Of course the story was buried on page 3, so it was hard to find. But if these two (liberal) papers couldn’t prove the election was stolen, it wasn’t. [/QUOTE] Not that I think either election was “stolen”, but the ironicalistic\* fact is that if the count had proceeded the way Gore wanted it (only a few counties), Bush would’ve won and if it had proceded the way Bush wanted it (the whole state), Gore would’ve won. So, no, Bush didn’t win no matter which way you slided it. \*I know it’s not a word, but I love that SNL imitation of Bush. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/84 "2006-11-01T01:13:58Z")
[QUOTE=spifflog] What does that prove? [/quote] I did not cite that article to prove the Republic actually **is** in danger of becoming a dictatorship, but to point out to **Clothahump** why he should not be surprised so many highly intelligent people are actually worried about that. [QUOTE=spifflog] Honestly, this web sit of yours is almost as frightening as the one referenced above. [/QUOTE] That site is simply the online version of [_In These Times,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_These_Times) an eminently respectable left-wing magazine to which you really should subscribe. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/85 "2006-11-01T01:19:28Z")
Fear not, **Tuckerfan**. As the board’s resident super-villain I have long since taken measures against just such an eventuality, as it would interfere with my long-range plans for conquest of the Earth. Unfortunately the implementation of this plan will require the deaths of all youse guys 'cept **Anaamika** (cause I love you so much), **gigi** (cause I owe her a favor), **Carlyjay** ('cause she’s so hot) and one other whose name I shall not divulge. But you can’t make omelets without breaking eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/86 "2006-11-01T01:20:53Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Constitution of the United States? I prefer to think the situation described in the OP opens up to us a wider range of choices after the revolution. We might decide on a **better** constitution. [/QUOTE] I took Tri’s post to mean that he feels anyone who has sworn an oath on the constitution would be honor bound to start a rebellion. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/87 "2006-11-01T03:48:19Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [This](http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2874/) might help put the above in perspective for you, **Clotha:** [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > In my classes I have been asking my students why they don’t follow the news, and they say, “Why bother—it’s all spin and you can’t believe it.” And that is a very telling sentence. The liberal news media spins everything goddamn thing it can to make Bush look like Teh Ant1Kr1st. Straight out of the Goebbels handbook: yell a lie long enough and loud enough and eventually people will start to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/88 "2006-11-01T04:07:39Z")
Which lies do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/89 "2006-11-01T11:01:53Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] I took Tri’s post to mean that he feels anyone who has sworn an oath on the constitution would be honor bound to start a rebellion. [/QUOTE] Indeed. And many who took that same oath feel the same. I despise Bush now. But as of today, he has not declared himself, nor acted defacto as an enemy of the Constitution. Acting to preserve his own status beyond the scope of his legal term of office would be a defacto attack upon it. I will not speculate on the exact nature of my response. It would have to be covert, and violence would be a very unlikely means of gaining my objective, which would be the restoration of legally constituted government. But my ethics would not require me to eschew any thought of violence against him, or his associates were there reasonable evidence that he was acting outside his legal powers. It just would not be practical for one old fart to go on the war path one on one with the Rogue Executive. The first duty of a revolutionary is to win. Tris ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/90 "2006-11-01T13:43:57Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] [QUOTE=elucidator] Frankly, if this suspension of the Constitution required military force to be imposed, I don’t think he would be obeyed. American soldiers, like pretty much all soldiers, have a strong authoritarian streak, it goes with the territory. But they are _American_ soldiers. Not Russians, not Germans and, Lord God, not _Italians_, for cryin’ out loud! [/QUOTE] \Genocide of Native Americans\ [/QUOTE] Hey, that was _libertarian_ genocide, not _authoritarian_ genocide. Which goes to show, you don’t need to be a fascist to be a racist murderous punk. But much of the modern active-service military is anti-racist & moderate-left. The right-wing loonies, like the left-wing loonies, tend to look for clubs or gangs outside of the legitimate military. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/91 "2006-11-01T13:49:06Z")
[QUOTE=spifflog] No, it’s ludicrous to argue that it can happen here, until it does. And that fact that America is the world’s oldest democracy (depending on one’s definition), makes America special. Not the greatest thing ever, or better than anyone else, but special, yes. Between the two parties, the media and the American love of individual freedom, it is ridiculous to think the American people would sign up for this kind of thing. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure Iceland & various indigenous nations have it beat for the title. And the USA today is not much more democratic than the UK was even during the War for Independence. Now, oldest unquestionably sovereign “Republic,” maybe so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/92 "2006-11-01T14:25:03Z")
[QUOTE=foolsguinea] And the USA today is not much more democratic than the UK was even during the War for Independence. [/QUOTE] So, the US has a hereditary monarch as executive, half of its legislature is made up of people born into the role, and the other half is beholden only to white landowners? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/93 "2006-11-01T14:32:19Z")
[QUOTE=John Corrado] So, the US has a hereditary monarch as executive, [/quote] The King/Queen has no actual power, they’re merely a figurehead. > [@](#): > > half of its legislature is made up of people born into the role This point could probably be argued, in a manner of speaking. > [@](#): > > and the other half is beholden only to white landowners? As could this one. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/94 "2006-11-01T15:13:14Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] The King/Queen has no actual power, they’re merely a figurehead. [/quote] They weren’t at the time of the American Revolution, which is what **foolsguinea** was talking about. > [@](#): > > This point could probably be argued, in a manner of speaking… As could this one. 😉 Oh, right, because being cynical is the same thing as being intelligent. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/95 "2006-11-01T21:04:42Z")
[QUOTE=Clothahump] And that is a very telling sentence. The liberal news media spins everything goddamn thing it can to make Bush look like Teh Ant1Kr1st. Straight out of the Goebbels handbook: yell a lie long enough and loud enough and eventually people will start to believe it. [/QUOTE] Ermm . . . I think you’ll find the student in question was complaining about \*\*right-\*\*wing spin. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/96 "2006-11-01T21:11:23Z")
I also hope you’re aware, **Clotha,** that magazines like _In These Times_ and Air America Radio pretty much **are** the “liberal media,” and that CNN and NBC and so on are not. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/97 "2006-11-01T21:44:08Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] I have found it, I think. You (or the site) appear to be referring to Sec 1076, which modifies 10 USC §333. The new law appears to add more conditions, making it HARDER, not easier, to invoke §333. [/QUOTE] I know you’re a lawyer and one of the few here who explains a lot of these matters for us, but I cannot see why the newer law makes it substantially tougher for Bush to declare martial law than the older one did. The added conditions might increase the Degree of Difficulty from 0.2 to 0.4 but it’s still a walk in the park for Bush to get his way here. In both the old and new law, he seems to be the only arbiter, the only decider, who interprets the law and and invokes it. There seems to be no checks or balances. If he specifically asked for this new wording, I strongly suspect we might be missing something that is strongly in Bush’s favor. I’m not being snarky in the least, so if I am wrong, please enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Sweet\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/98 "2006-11-01T23:39:15Z")
Granting and addressing the hypothetical situation as layed out by the OP, I would ask ye noble Dopers another questions: if bush really pissed on the Constitution and had military/popular support, would there be any State governments that seceded in reaction? Would they be right to? Would you support the secession in your state if Bush, or any part of the Fed were to “suspend” the Constitution indefinitely? Just throwing that onto the hypothetical pile. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/99 "2006-11-01T23:50:13Z")
No, there wouldn’t be any secession movements, because the coup attempt would be over long before any such movement could get underway. People would be concentrating on re-establishing legitimate federal government, not declaring independence. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320/100 "2006-11-02T00:13:31Z")
We would be buying our snowcones in hell and patting each other on the backs, saying ‘I told you so!’. 😛 -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-bush-were-to-suspend-the-constitution-what-would-we-do/378320.md?page=6)