# If charoset in the Seder symbolizes mortar in backbreaking bricklaying, **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 28, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103 "2010-03-28T14:07:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/1 "2010-03-28T14:07:38Z")
… why is it sweet? This comes up every Passover at my Seder. Thanks Leo BTW, Happy Passover! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/2 "2010-03-28T14:29:01Z")
IANAJ but look at the ingredients you need to make the stuff, it has to be symbolically mortar so it is ground fruits and nuts. What would you make it from? Keep it in the realm of edibility and kashrut 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/3 "2010-03-28T15:11:37Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > IANAJ but look at the ingredients you need to make the stuff, it has to be symbolically mortar so it is ground fruits and nuts. What would you make it from? Keep it in the realm of edibility and kashrut 🙂 Thanks. Sort of feels like mortar (but _way_ to crunchy, at least the way I like it, but the question remains: why sweet? From what I’ve read about Sephardic customs (Sefardim==Jews in diaspora in Muslim countries) charoset has dates and and honey and pomegranates and all sorts of sweet goodies also. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/4 "2010-03-28T15:30:36Z")
The bitterness of slavery was already covered in one of the big three, the bitter herbs, so this supporting player could actually taste good. I read on Wikipedia however that the ingredients are an allusion to foods mentioned by King Solomon in The Song of Songs as symbolic of the Jewish people, so let’s go with that! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/5 "2010-03-28T15:39:05Z")
I’ve always thought it was because of Exodus 16:3, and how in hindsight, slavery can seem sweet. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/6 "2010-03-28T15:50:02Z")
You obviously can;t use anything dairy as the binder. Mayonnaise (assuming the kind you buy is pareve) wouldn’t be traditional. So, OP let me challenge you: if not honey, the most obviously sticky binder shared by both modern and ancient Jews, what? BTW, the way we make charoset, we use a little honey but also wine, and grind the walnuts into powder to act as a binder. Our charoset is actually not that sweet. ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/7 "2010-03-28T16:43:15Z")
You’ve obviously never tasted mortar. It’s just like charoset. ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/8 "2010-03-28T16:45:44Z")
But seriously, I wonder whether the mortar connection was imposed after charoset was already being eaten. I’ve read the claim that unleavened bread was originally an offering of the first grain, and the “haste” story came later to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/9 "2010-03-28T17:58:18Z")
Why shouldn’t it be sweet? What, haven’t we suffered enough? I’m putting dates in mine this year. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/10 "2010-03-28T19:06:57Z")
Because even when it seems like everything about your life sucks, you can still find a little sweetness somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/11 "2010-03-28T19:22:15Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I’ve always thought it was because of Exodus 16:3, and how in hindsight, slavery can seem sweet. That sounds plausible. Cite? (really) In oral Torah? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/12 "2010-03-28T19:39:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Why shouldn’t it be sweet? What, haven’t we suffered enough? A facetious, yet very valid answer. Passover is a celebratory holiday; the fast is done for rememberance, not in repentance. Ergo it is unecessary to cause a celebration to be needlessly unpleasant. Eating it with a dose of horseradish reminds one enough of the bitterness of oppression. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/13 "2010-03-28T19:46:13Z")
Ah Wiki…their article on charoset has two wonderful cites, one in see also (or it refernces?) another in external sites on sexual liberation. Persians (? I’m on a cell and can’t multitask well) have 40(!) ingredients in their charoset. For all I know 3000 years ago they used on purpose nasty-tasting charoset. I find it hard not to doubt some massive changes… ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/14 "2010-03-29T04:06:14Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Ah Wiki…their article on charoset has two wonderful cites, one in see also (or it refernces?) another in external sites on sexual liberation. > > Persians (? I’m on a cell and can’t multitask well) have 40(!) ingredients in their charoset. > > For all I know 3000 years ago they used on purpose nasty-tasting charoset. I find it hard not to doubt some massive changes… Religious correction(obviously not historical one): according to the Rabbis, 1312 BCE was the year of the Exodus. The first Seder took place the night before the Exodus. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-charoset-in-the-seder-symbolizes-mortar-in-backbreaking-bricklaying/534103/15 "2010-03-29T15:30:14Z")
Did anyone else think that the thread title sounded like it came from one of those random spam sentence generators?