# If China had been more open at the beginning of the pandemic, how would it have mattered? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-china-had-been-more-open-at-the-beginning-of-the-pandemic-how-would-it-have-mattered/954054 "2021-11-09T16:47:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-china-had-been-more-open-at-the-beginning-of-the-pandemic-how-would-it-have-mattered/954054/41 "2021-12-14T11:27:17Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I of course acknowledge the early cover up in Wuhan, and several mistakes made, I’m just saying to be proportionate here. When it’s come to various swine or bird flus emerging in other countries the response has generally been slow and confused. > And are we really to suggest that had covid-19 emerged in Trump’s America the situation would have been much clearer and the response more organized? In fact, I think you could make a case that things would be worse than they are now. I never make the silly mistake of judging one country’s actions in reference to another country’s actions. I just judge by what was done. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-china-had-been-more-open-at-the-beginning-of-the-pandemic-how-would-it-have-mattered/954054/42 "2021-12-14T11:38:53Z")
And I haven’t: I have criticized China’s actions. I was just explaining what I meant by being proportionate. But, in terms of your previous post, what do you mean by maximizing risk to others while minimizing risk to themselves? In the early stages of this thing it looked like China would be the most affected country, if not the _only_ affected country. So it doesn’t really make sense how China could do such a trick. Then in the later stages, well, everyone knew what everyone knew, it was irrelevant what China was doing. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-china-had-been-more-open-at-the-beginning-of-the-pandemic-how-would-it-have-mattered/954054/43 "2021-12-14T11:48:43Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > And I haven’t: I have criticized China’s actions. I was just explaining what I meant by being proportionate. And I was just explaining what I meant by being reasonable. I judge people and countries by their actions, not by what other people do. I’m out of this nonsense debate with you. We all saw what went down, as it went down. China wants to blame other countries now. SARS, Bird Flu, Swine Flu. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-china-had-been-more-open-at-the-beginning-of-the-pandemic-how-would-it-have-mattered/954054/44 "2021-12-14T13:42:19Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I’m out of this nonsense debate with you. We all saw what went down, as it went down. China wants to blame other countries now. Let’s be clear, I have as much reason to be angry at China as anyone. But I also like to be objective about things. And I was there, I was there in Chinese hospitals right at the time this was all going down. I have to concede that China’s response was very fast compared to how quickly viruses are normally identified, investigated and measures taken, yes, even including the Wuhan cover up in the first couple weeks. Of course I think sometimes: Would my father still be alive if those doctors had not been silenced? But I also have the same thought about What if in the UK they hadn’t ridiculed the idea of masks for _months_, or What if the wealthiest country in the world hadn’t been the primary reservoir for both the virus and misinformation? And that’s what this is all about. I am not saying “Don’t blame China”. I am saying “Let’s not try to deflect all of the blame just to China”. > [@Isamu](#): > > SARS, Bird Flu, Swine Flu. You’re aware that there have been Swine and Avian flus, and coronaviruses that emerged in other countries than China right? Show me the one where it was stamped out effectively. Not one where the virus itself wasn’t very contagious and so only spread to a handful of countries. I mean, one where it didn’t spread to any other countries in the first place thanks to the origin country doing whatever it is you think China should have done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-china-had-been-more-open-at-the-beginning-of-the-pandemic-how-would-it-have-mattered/954054.md?page=2)