# If clues were WMDs, I'd be Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093 "2003-07-26T15:01:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/141 "2003-08-14T02:04:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wintermute \* > **Not at all. Let’s go back to that couple on the couch. We now have some idea of what she’s thinking about, but what’s running through _his_ mind? Is he worried about those love handles? Does his thinning hair line even cross his mind? How about that unibrow, now that she’s up close?** For several years, if you had asked me why I never approached women, I probably would have told you it was because I was too fat, and that no woman would want some big fat fuck like me. I wasn’t _fat_ fat, just a little soft in the middle. Well, I’m noticeably less fat than I used to be. Guess what? I went out and became da’ ladies’ man, right? _Bzzzzt_… wrong. Nothing really changed. I was insecure, period. If I’d been lean and cut, I’d have found something else to be insecure about. I just bought a brand new car. It’s nice, I like it a lot. But as I was driving along today, ruminating, as I often do, I started thinking “I bet a lot of women wouldn’t date a guy who drives a Honda Civic. They want a guy with a Boxster or a Corvette or something. I guess I shouldn’t expect to get any dates with a car like this” et cetera, et cetera… Does that sound like crazy talk to you? That’s because it _is_ crazy talk. But it’s no crazier than your ruminations on your boobs, your sexual technique, your womanly scent, etc. The media is not exactly easy on us either, you know. “Will your wife still love you if you lose your hair? Better get Rogaine, just in case.” “Are you a fat, slovenly bastard? Bowflex can help!” And don’t forget “Why men are selfish, abusive perverts; tonight on Oprah.” ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/142 "2003-08-14T02:39:22Z")
I guess I’m just lucky. I have the same lack of awareness as **Miller** , but apparently I only attract aggressive girls who have no qualms about making the first move. I could ask some of my exes to come visit you if you want. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/143 "2003-08-14T03:23:57Z")
I’ll pay shipping. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/144 "2003-08-14T03:52:14Z")
Can I get one as well? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/145 "2003-08-14T06:01:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rashak Mani \* > \*\*How repressed do you girls/women feel in relation to being free about your sexuality ? > > There is always the impression that women hold back a lot… be it in the flirting… in asking out… in having sexual fantasies… and even within a relationship. We men tend to think women are less horny… but I feel that its not that much… that women repress themselves maybe. > > ``` > Or maybe sex is just the sideshow for girls ? Part of the package and not so important. ** > > ``` Can’t answer for all women, but according to such sources as B. DeAngelis, Erica Jong, etc, many women “hold back” not because they aren’t interested in sex, but because first and foremost they want a relationship, NOT just a one night stand. Having sex too soon in a relationship can (usual disclaimers apply) cause it to falter too soon, or cause the man to “bump and run”. For me? Sex, and GOOD sex at that, is an **extremely** important part of a relationship. I feel repressed only because of it’s other “problems” outside a committed long term relationship. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/146 "2003-08-14T06:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMule \* > \*\*Jesus Christ you women are NUTS! > > If I worried about every little thing that much I’d be twice as crazy as I am now. > > Maybe this explains (partly) why men have no clue as to how to deal with women, it seems based on what **Wintermute** says that women are in a constant state of anxiety. > > Is it any wonder men have a hard time picking up on the obvious signals? It’s hard to pick up the “I like you” radio waves because they are drowned out from the neurotic static. > > You gals need therapy > ::hops off soap box:: \*\* Actually, according the the psych experts that be, it’s not “nuts” it’s ancestry. While you guys were out killing the saber tooth tiger to protect the homefront. The way women survived, ('cause face it, once we had kids back then, we were pretty much helpless to run from sabertooths, let alone kill food etc), anyway, our survival was dependent upon keeping the man that kept us safe and fed, happy. To do this women became very observant to the tiniest nuance of possible displeasure on the part of her cavemate. Just as your surges of testosterone rule you insofar as having to “spread as much seed as possible” and “killing the pigskin” etc. so does OUR ancestry lead us to “be on the lookout” for any little thing that may displease a man (such as **WinterMute’s** description). Of course the impossible standards that Hollywood, the Fashion Industry and popular culture set out as “necessary” (not to mention mysoginists like Tom Leykis), don’t help. Neither do the young hipper than thou “entitled” studs who judge women on the old “1-10” scale. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/147 "2003-08-14T10:20:07Z")
Reading thru Wintermute’s description of what goes thru a womans head during “making out” reminded me that we men also have some of these wierd things going. Granted its not about my hair smelling or if she noticed my socks were looking funny. Most of it consists in "How can I push the envelope here ? How can I get her more excited ? Let me just quickly brush against here nipple. Why is she still protective of her boobs … we have been kissing for X time already. Hhmmm… she didnt react too well when my hand touched her side… maybe she is insecure about that area. (Yes I worry about the “no touch” areas of insecurity). ``` Its a lot about where is the kissing and fondling going and the next "tactic". Thinking about where to kiss her to make her go crazy next. This is in the beggining of the relationship... after sometime together we know or should know how to turn on our girl. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Wintermute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@Wintermute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wintermute)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/148 "2003-08-14T14:59:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mischievous \* > \*\ ***Wintermute** , my love, get some therapy. > > I mean, sure, I’m a girl, and I have had all of the above thoughts go through my head. But they sure don’t pass by very often and they sure don’t stay very long. At some point, you have to recognize that your insecurity is your own. > > I’m not trying to criticize you for having hang-ups. We all do. But this thread is starting to read like you’re trying to make men feel guilty about your personal issues. You feel like a slut if you ask someone out - so men shouldn’t expect normal assertion in women. You feel unbeautiful in intimate situations - so men should… what exactly? Compliment you? - probably not perceived as genuine. Call you back? - yeah, but should’ve already. No one, male or female, can mind read all of your particular hang-ups. It seems like you just want them to feel bad about you feeling bad. > > This thread started out as a request that females communicate more clearly (to interpret slightly). What you’re trying to tell us all is that females don’t, won’t, can’t… and don’t want to learn. That’s a gross overgeneralization that doesn’t apply to many of us. And it’s an undesirable state, which I would suggest you try and change rather than making more excuses about why you pesonally have trouble asking for what you want. > > Clear communication is a form of fighting ignorance. And asking for what you want is just common sense. > > mischievous \*\* I didn’t think I had to qualify my answers. Although this is the pit, these were clearly my opinions, and I expected them to be taken as such. I never claimed to be an expert on women, and, frankly, was uncomfortable being the only one posting. Nor was it my intent to make any one feel guilty. I am sorry if anyone took it that way. I realize that this thread got hijacked badly, and had planned to post suggesting that we take it to IMHO, where we could solicit the opinions of other people. And, FWIW, I realize that I’m fucked up, but thank you for pointing that out to me. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Wintermute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@Wintermute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wintermute)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/149 "2003-08-14T15:03:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*Actually, according the the psych experts that be, it’s not “nuts” it’s ancestry. > > While you guys were out killing the saber tooth tiger to protect the homefront. The way women survived, ('cause face it, once we had kids back then, we were pretty much helpless to run from sabertooths, let alone kill food etc), anyway, our survival was dependent upon keeping the man that kept us safe and fed, happy. > > To do this women became very observant to the tiniest nuance of possible displeasure on the part of her cavemate. > > Just as your surges of testosterone rule you insofar as having to “spread as much seed as possible” and “killing the pigskin” etc. so does OUR ancestry lead us to “be on the lookout” for any little thing that may displease a man (such as **WinterMute’s** description). > > Of course the impossible standards that Hollywood, the Fashion Industry and popular culture set out as “necessary” (not to mention mysoginists like Tom Leykis), don’t help. > > Neither do the young hipper than thou “entitled” studs who judge women on the old “1-10” scale. \*\* Thank you, **CanvasShoes** for this and your post just previous. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/150 "2003-08-14T19:15:06Z")
And further in **WinterMute’s** defense, I didn’t get that she was saying that it was a CONSTANT stream of this kind of thing going through her, OR “all women’s” heads. Nor did I get that she was divided on … first it’s what’s going through her head, then it’s the media’s fault etc. People asked questioned, she answered “here in part is why”. And then she further answered “WHY do women sometimes feel this way?? Well, the media, societal expectations etc”. I don’t think her two answers were contradictory, just informational and I thought she was pretty clear that “this is one woman’s opinion”. I think she was saying more along the lines of “here’s what SOMETIMES happens to cause women to feel and/or act more repressed”. Sure there are a lot of women (probably those of the younger generations :D), that have moved way past this (as seems to be evidenced by their actions such as in “The Real Rio,” but a lot of us still spend time and energy trying to make sure we’re “being good enough” from time to time. It’s no more “nuts” than the men here “not getting” that they were being hit on. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/151 "2003-08-14T20:46:55Z")
Sheesh, you people are pathetic. I’ve got hot desirable chicks flirting with me all the time. And it’s so blatantly obvious, too. The other day, a smokin’ babe was sitting on a park bench, reading a book. She was _transparently_ flirting with me, although she was trying to pretend not to notice me. The salacious way she turned the pages, the obvious “come-on” movement of her eyes as they scanned back and forth, back and forth across the words … what a slut. I’m lucky she didn’t throw me down right there and ravish me. Then there was the incredibly hot chick who was in a meeting last week. She kept talking and talking about the production facilities a particular catalog printer had. I started to feel embarassed for her when she kept harping on “production facilities,” all the while completely avoiding even the appearance of looking in my direction. I mean, how much more obvious could she be? I’m sure the other folks in the meeting were getting uncomfortable at such a naked display of lust. Finally I just couldn’t let her continue any longer. I interrupted her in mid-sentence and said, “Look, I know you’re panting after me uncontrollably, but I’ve got to tell you, I’m happily married. Go slake your thirst at some other pump, missy; I’m taken.” She just stared and stared. I’m sure a trollop like that isn’t used to being told “no,” and having it happen so abruptly messed with her head. Now it’s getting even worse. Hot desirable chicks are sending me naked pictures of themselves completely unbidden. They don’t try to hide it, either. “Come see these photos of a hot desirable chick!” is the type of e-mail I get regularly. I must be the only guy in the world who can inspire lust over a computer. I gotta try to tone myself down some. Maybe I can get **chula** to describe to me how the nerds act. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Beaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Grim\_Beaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Beaker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/152 "2003-08-14T21:14:15Z")
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**Author:** ![Wintermute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@Wintermute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wintermute)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/153 "2003-08-14T21:36:36Z")
**Mischeivous** , what **CanvasShoes** said. And **CanvasShoes** , thank you once again for helping clarify my points and for offering another point of view. **Sauron** , LOL! 😃 So…how _you_ doin’? I love a guy with a sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093/154 "2003-08-15T12:32:17Z")
Oh I am envious of your suffering chick harrasment poor Sauron ! You great man… me just small one… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-clues-were-wmds-id-be-iraq/191093.md?page=7)