# If Consciousness is just a chemical reaction do you think we got Gypped? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993 "2007-09-04T13:26:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/1 "2007-09-04T13:26:14Z")
We agnostics, heck even we atheists have to wonder about consciousness from time to time. If I am sitting here in my Hobbit hole, looking out into the world - interpreting the weather the interactions between peoples and the origins of life itself on this rock in our solar system, what do I think is driving me to think those things? No one put it better in my opinion than **Julian Jaynes** : > [@](#): > > O’ WHAT A WORLD of unseen visions and heard silences, this insubstantial country of the mind! What ineffable essences, these touchless rememberings and unshowable reveries! And the privacy of it all! A secret theater of speechless monologue and prevenient counsel, an invisible mansion of all moods, musings, and mysteries, an infinite resort of disappointments and discoveries. A whole kingdom where each of us reigns reclusively alone, questioning what we will, commanding what we can. A hidden hermitage where we may study out the troubled book of what we have done and yet may do. An introcosm that is more myself than anything I can find in a mirror. This consciousness that is myself of selves, that is everything, and yet nothing at all —what is it? And where did it come from? And why? But we know why; don’t we? We interpret our surroundings everyday by our senses. We assess our surroundings by touch, hearing, sight, smell and taste - we interpret signals sent to our brains and continue through life effortlessly. Is there something in their called a self? Does even the staunch atheist think about a spirit dwelling within? I do. I think about things like motivation, and not just the satisfying of cravings motivation but the deep seeded motivations that tell us to do things like have children, make more money, create meaning in our lives…I like to think that I am not just what I do, but I am something else, that there is a spirit inside. Perhaps this is faith? However if that is faith what causes us to have faith in even ourselves? Survival perhaps? What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/2 "2007-09-04T13:41:18Z")
A combination of inborn “programming” creating by millions of years of evolution, years of learning, and random environmental influences. That’s what make us what we are. We are a clumsy, slow, imprecise, poorly made chemical/biological computer. There’s no “spirit”, or any evidence such a thing is either possible or necessary. For that matter, there’s no reason to believe that if there was one that it would be an improvement; we are what we are, limitations and all. Claiming we are partly made of some conveniently undetectable spirit won’t make us any less limited. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/3 "2007-09-04T13:43:19Z")
> [@](#): > > If Consciousness is just a chemical reaction do you think we got Gypped? If consciousness is just a series of chemical reactions, then what do you mean ‘we,’ paleface? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![the\_PC\_apeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@the\_PC\_apeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_PC_apeman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/4 "2007-09-04T13:47:41Z")
Such thoughts are the squealing feedback of biological processes sufficiently cranked up by run-away spiraling evolution of the brain. (IMHO) But enjoy it anyway. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/5 "2007-09-04T13:50:39Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I think about things like motivation, and not just the satisfying of cravings motivation but the deep seeded motivations that tell us to do things like have children, make more money, create meaning in our lives…I like to think that I am not just what I do, but I am something else, that there is a spirit inside. Perhaps this is faith? However if that is faith what causes us to have faith in even ourselves? Survival perhaps? What do you think? [/QUOTE] I think that we just are - I don’t have to have faith that I just am - I just am. Just the Meat and its electrochemical activity. No Inspiration necessary. No Faith Added. Either that or you are using the words “faith” and “spirit” in ways I have no empathic connection with. And BTW, “Gypped” might come and bite you on the ass when the offenderati pitch. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/6 "2007-09-04T13:53:43Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] Does even the staunch atheist think about a spirit dwelling within? [/QUOTE] Not really. My senses and my brain and my nerves and the rest all combine to form a consciousness, a mind if you will, that is mayhap greater than the sum of its parts, but no more so than an airplane is more than its parts, simply because they’re put together just… right. I like to think of myself as ELIZA[sup]100[/sup]. The rest of you have my permission to strive towards ELIZA[sup]50[/sup] level. But don’t strain yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/7 "2007-09-04T14:35:51Z")
What do you mean gypped? How is not having some made up thing some people imagine they feel being gypped? Why is anything spiritual necessary or even desirable? The human mind is amazing, why do people keep looking past it for things that don’t exist? The garden is beautiful, why does there have to be faeries at the bottom of it? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/8 "2007-09-04T14:40:46Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] What do you mean gypped? How is not having some made up thing some people imagine they feel being gypped? Why is anything spiritual necessary or even desirable? The human mind is amazing, why do people keep looking past it for things that don’t exist? The garden is beautiful, why does there have to be faeries at the bottom of it? [/QUOTE] Preach it, bru. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/9 "2007-09-04T14:51:13Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I like to think that I am not just what I do, but I am something else, that there is a spirit inside. [/QUOTE] We often think of ourselves as a body being piloted by a little man sitting at the controls in your brain, and that little man is really you, he’s your spirit. But if that little man is really you, what’s in his head? Does it have a spirit in it too? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/10 "2007-09-04T14:55:41Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] What do you mean gypped? How is not having some made up thing some people imagine they feel being gypped? Why is anything spiritual necessary or even desirable? The human mind is amazing, why do people keep looking past it for things that don’t exist? The garden is beautiful, why does there have to be faeries at the bottom of it? [/QUOTE] 🙂 exactly. I’m asking because there are lot’s of folks who do believe in the faeries and who do believe in a spirit. Gypped was a colloquial expression, I should have chosen another word. But that’s the word my spirit insisted I use 😃 ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/11 "2007-09-04T14:59:24Z")
If I have a spirit, I want to do spirity things. You know, telepathy, astral projection – the basics. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/12 "2007-09-04T15:02:05Z")
[QUOTE=CurtC] We often think of ourselves as a body being piloted by a little man sitting at the controls in your brain, and that little man is really you, he’s your spirit. But if that little man is really you, what’s in his head? Does it have a spirit in it too? [/QUOTE] Turtles, all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/13 "2007-09-04T15:08:58Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I think about things like motivation, and not just the satisfying of cravings motivation but the deep seeded motivations that tell us to do things like have children [/QUOTE] If we weren’t motivated to breed, we’d never have evolved this far. [QUOTE=Phlosphr] make more money [/QUOTE] The drive for survival, and with greater affluence, comfort. [QUOTE=Phlosphr] create meaning in our lives…I like to think that I am not just what I do, but I am something else, that there is a spirit inside. [/QUOTE] Human consciousness is pretty spectacular, and maybe being born into such a sophisticated animal is something we never really get over fully. I think that given all we can conceive of from a human perspective, it is tempting to consider that we are so ‘special’ that we extend beyond our mundane existence in some way, but to me that is no reason to consider it likely. I’m glad to have a few years of such peculiar awareness as this, but know I am only a drop in the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/14 "2007-09-04T15:27:12Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] but no more so than an airplane is more than its parts, simply because they’re put together just… right. [/QUOTE] :dubious: “Put together”, eh? Hmmm, what a pretty can of worms you’re opening NOW, Priceguy. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/15 "2007-09-04T15:31:13Z")
[QUOTE=Koxinga] :dubious: “Put together”, eh? Hmmm, what a pretty can of worms you’re opening NOW, Priceguy. [/QUOTE] At least he said we were put together “just right” and not “just so”… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/16 "2007-09-04T15:35:08Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] No one put it better in my opinion than **Julian Jaynes** : [/QUOTE] From _The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind_? Man, that was a tripy book! I think his general thesis is bunk, but I’ll go with the other poster who say: So what? In order to be “gypped” there had to be some kind of bargain. We are what we are, and just because we had some fantasies about something different earlier in our history, that means nothing. I find the universe to be even more fantastical without a God. Who wants to be a someone’s puppet or toy? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/17 "2007-09-04T16:35:04Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] From _The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind_? Man, that was a tripy book! I think his general thesis is bunk, but I’ll go with the other poster who say: So what? In order to be “gypped” there had to be some kind of bargain. We are what we are, and just because we had some fantasies about something different earlier in our history, that means nothing. I find the universe to be even more fantastical without a God. Who wants to be a someone’s puppet or toy? [/QUOTE] Boy when I was in college I thought that book was the bee’s knees. I know his tripy book was out there but that paragraph I always loved because it basically said everything and nothing all at the same time. I agree completely who want’s to be someone’s puppet or toy? Not I, that is why I am quite agnostic. I believe in a spirit that may lay within, but to me universal oneness doesn’t lay with a dead white guy on a cross. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/18 "2007-09-05T02:32:26Z")
Jesus is the reason for the season. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/19 "2007-09-05T03:20:16Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] Jesus is the reason for the season. [/QUOTE] If that’s a reference the Christmas season, there were celebrations then long before he infested the world. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993/20 "2007-09-05T03:41:16Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Man, that was a tripy book! [/QUOTE] Do you mean “tripy,” as in “of or concerning hog innards,” or did you misspell “trippy?” I ask because either will fit. As for the OP, that stuff is why I’m patronizing toward philosophers. They’re great people and loads of fun to get drunk and argue with, but one cannot pay any attention to those things in the clear light of day because they’ll drive you nuts. However, in fairness I should answer the questions: Yes, consciousness is “just” a chemical reaction. No, I don’t feel gypped. Er, Romed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-consciousness-is-just-a-chemical-reaction-do-you-think-we-got-gypped/417993.md?page=2)