# If declaring national emergencies becomes a thing, what kinds of NEs could the democrats do **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664 "2019-02-16T13:51:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/1 "2019-02-16T13:51:34Z")
A health care national emergency would be nice, but I don’t think the funding is there to do it. A climate change national emergency would be nice also. But again who knows what it would entail. What about a democracy emergency? In between gerrymandering, voter suppression, voter purges, American politicians getting money and help from overseas sources, etc. could an emergency to defend democracy be declared? Abolish gerrymandering, voter suppression, voter purges and investigate the role of money in politics (domestic and foreign) as well as which politicians are getting assistance from overseas, especially from America’s adversaries? What about a gun control emergency? What could that entail? Clean drinking water and lead poisoning? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/2 "2019-02-16T14:19:07Z")
AFAIK, all the National Emergencies Act does is allow the President to redirect already-appropriated money to pay for something else instead. It’s not an all-encompassing tool with which any law can be changed by decree, so there’s no way to use it to abolish gerrymandering. It’s useful for small-bore stuff like building a few miles of Potemkin wall, but to do anything big, you still need an actual appropriation. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/3 "2019-02-16T15:18:16Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > …What about a gun control emergency? What could that entail? … I have yet to see a plausible argument for being able to do anything on this front. AFAICT Pelosi was just fear-mongering and spouting bullshit when she included it in her list. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/4 "2019-02-16T15:55:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > . . . Pelosi was just fear-mongering . . . when she included it in her list. “Fear-mongering”? If that’s what you want to call it. Me? I’d say it was more like ‘illustrating’, or maybe just ‘explaining’ (well at least to those who needed it explained). ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/5 "2019-02-16T16:25:12Z")
I have seen the economics of the wall justified on the basis of a small percentage of the Federal budget. With the same justification, one could eliminate the direct economic contribution of civilian arms manufacture and sales. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/6 "2019-02-16T17:40:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I have yet to see a plausible argument for being able to do anything on this front. AFAICT Pelosi was just fear-mongering and spouting bullshit when she included it in her list. I can, AFAIK there are already laws in the books, like the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, the problem has been that a lot of it depends on voluntary reporting from states. > **[Mental Health Reporting](https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-checks/mental-health-reporting/)** > > Universal background checks save lives from gun violence. > [@](#): > > Since the Virginia Tech shooting, about half of the states have enacted laws authorizing and requiring the submission of mental health records to NICS, as described below. States that have enacted such laws have, in fact, subsequently submitted greater numbers of records. Of the states that had submitted the top 15 highest numbers of records as of May 2013, 14 (93%) had enacted such laws, while only two of the 15 poorest performing states (13%) had enacted such laws.8 > > Much Left to Do > > Despite the huge increase in the number of individuals identified in NICS, records of many individuals prohibited from possessing firearms because of their mental health histories are still missing from the database. The greatest gains in the numbers of state records submitted to NICS largely reflect the efforts of a small minority of states,9 and as of November 2013, 12 states had still submitted fewer than 100 records each.10 This is still an issue now. [https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2018-03-10/gun-background-check-system-riddled-with-flaws](https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2018-03-10/gun-background-check-system-riddled-with-flaws) So, I could see a new administration declaring an emergency and just by funding things like the NICS better and helping states (or making states that are in practice sabotaging many rules already in place to comply) make better reporting and funding constant checks to see if proper enforcing is going on with this and many other rules already in the books. I do think that there would be more justification to use money from Defense to… Well, the defense of America proper. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/7 "2019-02-16T17:41:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I have yet to see a plausible argument for being able to do anything on this front. The effectiveness of the proposed response to the declared emergency is clearly not relevant. Cite: Trump’s wall. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/8 "2019-02-16T17:57:58Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I have seen the economics of the wall justified on the basis of a small percentage of the Federal budget. > > With the same justification, one could eliminate the direct economic contribution of civilian arms manufacture and sales. I’m trying to understand what you’re saying here, and the closest I can get is that you think that a future Dem president could declare a national emergency and … shut down all the gun manufacturers and FFL’s? Have I understood you correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/9 "2019-02-16T18:02:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > AFAICT Pelosi was just fear-mongering and spouting bullshit when she included it in her list. God, the last thing we want is someone to fear-monger and spout bullshit when it comes to national emergencies. I’m glad you addressed this most important instance of the phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/10 "2019-02-16T18:03:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m trying to understand what you’re saying here, and the closest I can get is that you think that a future Dem president could declare a national emergency and … shut down all the gun manufacturers and FFL’s? Have I understood you correctly? Please try not to drop your monocle. Regardless of what a hypothetical Democrat president could actually accomplish, if the Trump example is allowed to stand, then any future president will have a means to re-allocate funding despite the wishes of congress to pursue goals of limited value to the nation overall. If you’re okay with Trump doing it, please have to courtesy to not feign shock at the idea of a future president doing something similar but for a reason you might not like. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/11 "2019-02-16T18:05:03Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I can, AFAIK there are already laws in the books, like the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, the problem has been that a lot of it depends on voluntary reporting from states. > > [Mental Health Reporting | Giffords](https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-checks/mental-health-reporting/) > This is still an issue now. > > [https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2018-03-10/gun-background-check-system-riddled-with-flaws](https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2018-03-10/gun-background-check-system-riddled-with-flaws) > > So, I could see a new administration declaring an emergency and just by funding things like the NICS better and helping states (or making states that are in practice sabotaging many rules already in place to comply) make better reporting and funding constant checks to see if proper enforcing is going on with this and many other rules already in the books. I do think that there would be more justification to use money from Defense to… Well, the defense of America proper. The emergency power related to defense we’ve been discussing elsewhere deals specifically with construction: > [@10 USC 2808](#): > > **Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency** > > (a) In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to **undertake military construction projects** , not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated. > > (b) When a decision is made to undertake military construction projects authorized by this section, the Secretary of Defense shall notify the appropriate committees of Congress of the decision and of the estimated cost of the construction projects, including the cost of any real estate action pertaining to those construction projects. > > (c) The authority described in subsection (a) shall terminate with respect to any war or national emergency at the end of the war or national emergency. I’m not aware of an emergency power to “make states … comply” with NICS reporting. Do you know of something more specifically geared towards what you propose? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/12 "2019-02-16T18:06:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Please try not to drop your monocle. Regardless of what a hypothetical Democrat president could actually accomplish, if the Trump example is allowed to stand, then any future president will have a means to re-allocate funding despite the wishes of congress to pursue goals of limited value to the nation overall. If you’re okay with Trump doing it, please have to courtesy to not feign shock at the idea of a future president doing something similar but for a reason you might not like. Presidents had that power prior to President Trump. For example, DACA. There’s no shock here, just, it seems, a lot of ignorance about the limits of the powers granted via declarations of national emergencies. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/13 "2019-02-16T18:10:29Z")
The section with the passage HurricaneDitka bolded: > [@](#): > > (a) In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to **undertake military construction projects** , not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated. The section that should also have been bolded: > [@](#): > > (a) In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law **that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces**. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated. Are there army bases on the southern border of the U.S. that are being attacked by refugees and must have their defenses upgraded? By all means, wall their brains out. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/14 "2019-02-16T18:13:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Presidents had that power prior to President Trump. For example, DACA. There’s no shock here, just, it seems, a lot of ignorance about the limits of the powers granted via declarations of national emergencies. Well, in that case, let the future Dem ban guns or whatever. It’s all nice and legal. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/15 "2019-02-16T18:17:41Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, in that case, let the future Dem ban guns or whatever. It’s all nice and legal. :rolleyes: Which emergency power would allow a president to ban guns? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/16 "2019-02-16T18:19:38Z")
It’s an emergency - he can do whatever Congress is willing to sit on its ass and watch him do. Apparently, this covers quite a lot a territory. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/17 "2019-02-16T18:23:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The section with the passage HurricaneDitka bolded: > > The section that should also have been bolded: > > Are there army bases on the southern border of the U.S. that are being attacked by refugees and must have their defenses upgraded? By all means, wall their brains out. HD is an expert at scanning text for a few words that he likes, while ignoring or discounting the remainder. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/18 "2019-02-16T18:30:49Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > HD is an expert at scanning text for a few words that he likes, while ignoring or discounting the remainder. No, but I do okay at sticking to the thread topic. We have a different thread about whether President Trump’s national emergency on the border “will hold” or not. This thread is about what hypothetical actions a future Dem president might undertake via a national emergency. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/19 "2019-02-16T18:31:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Which emergency power would allow a president to ban guns? I think the point is that a President could declare an emergency about anything, and start on it before Congress could stop it. NPR mentioned Friday about some of the emergency actions, one of which is to close bank accounts and take the money. I can’t find a link. Does anyone have a link to the emergency powers? The NPR article said that this act was created to cut down on use of the emergency powers by allowing Congress to vote on them and by making the emergency proclaimed by the President to expire in one year unless renewed by the President. I would like to see Congress deal with this, lest a future President attempt some weirdness like confiscating my bank account. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/20 "2019-02-16T18:32:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The emergency power related to defense we’ve been discussing elsewhere deals specifically with construction: So when Obama used one to respond to the swine flu epidemic in 2009 he needed to raid military construction? > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not aware of an emergency power to “make states … comply” with NICS reporting. Do you know of something more specifically geared towards what you propose? Do you think Texans or Texas will not complain being forced to comply with the wall? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664.md?page=2)