# If declaring national emergencies becomes a thing, what kinds of NEs could the democrats do **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664 "2019-02-16T13:51:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/21 "2019-02-16T18:33:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s an emergency - he can do whatever Congress is willing to sit on its ass and watch him do. > > Apparently, this covers quite a lot a territory. You realize there’s a third branch of government that might have a say about this too, right? ---
**Author:** ![betterlifethroughchemistry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/betterlifethroughchemistry/32/3094_2.png) [@betterlifethroughchemistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betterlifethroughchemistry)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/22 "2019-02-16T18:33:44Z")
In addition to Trump’s recent declaration of a national emergency for border security, the following national emergencies are still in effect: President Jimmy Carter Nov 14, 1979: The National Emergency With Respect to Iran. President Bill Clinton Nov 14, 1994: The National Emergency With Respect to the Proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction. Jan. 2, 1995: The National Emergency With Respect to Prohibiting Transactions with Terrorists Who Threaten to Disrupt the Middle East Peace Process. March 15, 1995: The National Emergency With Respect to Prohibiting Certain Transactions with Respect to the Development of Iranian Petroleum Resources. October 21, 1995: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Assets and Prohibiting Transactions with Significant Narcotics Traffickers Centered in Colombia. March 1, 1996: The National Emergency With Respect to Regulations of the Anchorage and Movement of Vessels with Respect to Cuba. November 3, 1997: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Sudanese Government Property and Prohibiting Transactions with Sudan. President George W. Bush June 26, 2001: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Persons Who Threaten International Stabilization Efforts in the Western Balkans. Aug 17, 2001: The National Emergency With Respect to Export Control Regulations. Sept 14, 2001: The National Emergency with Respect to Certain Terrorist Attacks. Sept 23, 2001: The National Emergency With Respect to Persons who Commit, Threaten to Commit, or Support Terrorism. March 6, 2003: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Persons Undermining Democratic Processes or Institutions in Zimbabwe. May 22, 2003: The National Emergency With Respect to Protecting the Development Fund for Iraq and Certain Other Property in Which Iraq has an Interest. May 11, 2004: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons and Prohibiting the Export of Certain Goods to Syria. June 16, 2006: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Undermining Democratic Processes or Institutions in Belarus. Oct 27, 2006: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Conflict in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Aug 1, 2007: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Persons Undermining the Sovereignty of Lebanon. June 26, 2008: The National Emergency With Respect to Continuing Certain Restrictions with Respect to North Korea. President Barack Obama April 12, 2010: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Conflict in Somalia. February 25, 2011: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property and Prohibiting Certain Transactions Related to Libya. July 25, 2011: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Transnational Criminals. May 16, 2012: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Persons Threatening the Peace, Security, or Stability of Yemen. March 16, 2014: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Ukraine. April 3, 2014: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons With Respect to South Sudan was in response to the ongoing civil war. May 12, 2014: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Conflict in the Central African Republic. March 8, 2015: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property and Suspending Entry of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Venezuela. April 1, 2015: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking the Property of Certain Persons Engaging in Significant Malicious Cyber-Enabled Activities. Nov 23, 2015: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Burundi. President Donald Trump Dec 20, 2017: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking the Property of Persons Involved in Serious Human Rights Abuse or Corruption. Sept 12, 2018: The National Emergency With Respect to Imposing Certain Sanctions in the Event of Foreign Interference in a United States Election. Nov 27, 2018: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Nicaragua. > **[Here's a list of the 31 national emergencies that have been in effect for years](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-31-national-emergencies-effect-years/story?id=60294693)** > > According to the Federal Register, 58 national emergencies have been declared since the National Emergency Act of 1976 was signed into law by President Gerald Ford. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/23 "2019-02-16T18:36:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You realize there’s a third branch of government that might have a say about this too, right? Wait, are you talking about _activist judges?!_ Now **I’VE** lost my monocle. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/24 "2019-02-16T18:39:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So when Obama used one to respond to the swine flu epidemic in 2009 he needed to raid military construction? … No, he used a _different_ emergency power, granted under 42 USC §1320b–5: > [@](#): > > [In an effort to proactively address the ongoing pandemic, the President signed a National Emergency Declaration on H1N1 that allows healthcare systems to quickly implement disaster plans should they become overwhelmed. > > As experts expected, H1N1 flu is moving rapidly throughout the country and the majority of states now have widespread influenza activity. This declaration gives authority for the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to waive certain regulatory requirements for healthcare facilities in response the ongoing pandemic. Specifically, healthcare facilities will be able to submit waivers to establish alternate care sites, and modified patient triage protocols, patient transfer procedures and other actions that occur when they fully implement disaster operations plans. > > Under Section 1135 of the Social Security Act [42 USC §1320b–5] healthcare facilities may petition for HHS approval of waivers in response to particular needs within the geographic and temporal limits of the emergency declarations. Before HHS has the authority to approve such “1135 Waivers” two conditions must be met: first, the Secretary must have declared a Public Health Emergency, and second, the President must have declared a National Emergency either through a Stafford Act Declaration or National Emergencies Act Declaration. 1135 Waivers still require specific requests be submitted to HHS and processed, and some State laws may need to be addressed as well. …]([President Obama Signs Emergency Declaration for H1N1 Flu | whitehouse.gov](https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2009/10/25/president-obama-signs-emergency-declaration-h1n1-flu)) But I still haven’t found the emergency power that lets the president “ban guns” or shut down gun manufacturers and FFLs. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/25 "2019-02-16T18:39:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, in that case, let the future Dem ban guns or whatever. It’s all nice and legal. While I do agree with you on the main issue, this bit is not going to work, hence the point about using existing law and funds from related departments to correct the virtual sabotage that states are doing regarding reporting and enforcement of the rules. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/26 "2019-02-16T18:40:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, he used a _different_ emergency power, granted under 42 USC §1320b–5: > > But I still haven’t found the emergency power that lets the president “ban guns” or shut down gun manufacturers and FFLs. That is nice, a nice straw man, but thank you for playing. The point stands, there are many ways to fund and get a congress that will not do much against an emergency declaration that enforces compliance about current rules or some tweaks to enhance them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/27 "2019-02-16T18:42:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Wait, are you talking about _activist judges?!_ > Now **I’VE** lost my monocle. I don’t generally see it as “activist” for the judiciary to tell the President he doesn’t have authority to do something, at least if that something isn’t a power granted by the Constitution or delegated to him by Congress. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/28 "2019-02-16T18:44:01Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > … The point stands, there are many ways to fund and get a congress that will not do much by enforcing compliance about current rules or some tweaks to enhance them. No, there aren’t. If you think otherwise, I invite you to cite the relevant section of code. If not, you’ve got yourself a nice fact-free assertion here, which we can all safely ignore. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/29 "2019-02-16T18:44:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, there aren’t. If you think otherwise, I invite you to cite the relevant section of code. If not, you’ve got yourself a nice fact-free assertion here, which we can all safely ignore. Like the swine flu emergency declaration… Not. Here is a hint: it is still a straw man from you, funding was found for that emergency, and more came later as congress saw that there was indeed an emergency there. No such thing in this case. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/30 "2019-02-16T18:47:10Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That is nice, a nice straw man, but thank you for playing. … And it’s not a straw man. I’m not the one inventing arguments about banning guns or shutting down manufacturers / FFLs. That was **Bryan Ekers** and **jasg** (if I understood him correctly), with perhaps some vague delusional assistance from Nancy: > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, in that case, let the future Dem ban guns or whatever. It’s all nice and legal. > [@jasg](#): > > … With the same justification, one could eliminate the direct economic contribution of civilian arms manufacture and sales. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/31 "2019-02-16T18:51:01Z")
I believe Trump intends to use eminent domain to take control of land needed for the wall. (Potemkin Wall. Heh. I’m stealing that.) I look forward to President Pelosi declaring a climate change emergency next year and seizing control of oil wells and coal fired power plants. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/32 "2019-02-16T18:52:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And it’s not a straw man. I’m not the one inventing arguments about banning guns or shutting down manufacturers / FFLs. That was **Bryan Ekers** and **jasg** (if I understood him correctly), with perhaps some vague delusional assistance from Nancy: Do you even **know** how the straw man fallacy works??? :smack: A hint: it is not a fallacy only when you do deal with what the opponent is arguing about. What others say can, so reply to them, if you can not deal with what I do post then my points stand. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/33 "2019-02-16T18:53:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > While I do agree with you on the main issue, this bit is not going to work, hence the point about using existing law and funds from related departments to correct the virtual sabotage that states are doing regarding reporting and enforcement of the rules. Well, it doesn’t really matter if there’s a “corrective” action or not. A future president could _say_ gun violence constitutes an emergency and do _something_ in response and if the Trumpian example serves as guide, facts won’t matter in the least. I have no expectation of an actual gun ban, but I can picture some new federal mandatory licensing requirements that require gun owners to take federally-certified instruction at federally-certified instruction centers, and the president’s spouse happens to be on the boards of directors of several such centers. Will this actually reduce gun violence? The fake news says it won’t, but fuck _those_ guys. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/34 "2019-02-16T19:05:21Z")
HD is correct Nancy Pelosi is just trying to scare the right wing with the prospect of losing their guns. The real emergency that could be solved by a parallel use of power is climate change. Either by using the power to seize and demolish coal power plants or by building massive wind and solar farms on taken land. Beach front property in red states could be taken as well to build sea walls. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/35 "2019-02-16T19:07:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, it doesn’t really matter if there’s a “corrective” action or not. A future president could _say_ gun violence constitutes an emergency and do _something_ in response and if the Trumpian example serves as guide, facts won’t matter in the least. I have no expectation of an actual gun ban, but I can picture some new federal mandatory licensing requirements that require gun owners to take federally-certified instruction at federally-certified instruction centers, and the president’s spouse happens to be on the boards of directors of several such centers. Will this actually reduce gun violence? The fake news says it won’t, but fuck _those_ guys. So, explain to me how you think this would work. Kamala declares an emergency, says she’s mandating licensing requirements for gun owners. I’m a gun owner. I say “FKDH, I’m not doing that” and continue to own and use my guns pretty much like I always have. What happens next? The ATF police come and arrest me? And then what? Haul me into federal court and charge me with … what exactly? Violating a presidential emergency declaration? My lawyer tells the judge there’s no federal criminal statute I violated and asks that I be released. If the judge is even vaguely fair, he agrees. I again say “FKDH” and sue her and the ATF police for a §1983 violation. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/36 "2019-02-16T19:09:38Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Beach front property in red states could be taken as well to build sea walls. If I was a Democrat and determined to be spiteful, I’d let the red states sink and allocate disaster-relief funds to blue states, i.e. screw the gulf-coast and southeast, but respond promptly to the west coast, northeast, and post-statehood Puerto Rico. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/37 "2019-02-16T19:13:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > … post-statehood Puerto Rico. 😃 You have a lot of dreams. That’s good. I was recently told that I “pine for some impossible fantasy land.” I don’t consider it a moral failing. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/38 "2019-02-16T19:13:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So, explain to me how you think this would work. Kamala declares an emergency, says she’s mandating licensing requirements for gun owners. I’m a gun owner. I say “FKDH, I’m not doing that” and continue to own and use my guns pretty much like I always have. What happens next? The ATF police come and arrest me? And then what? Haul me into federal court and charge me with … what exactly? Violating a presidential emergency declaration? My lawyer tells the judge there’s no federal criminal statute I violated and asks that I be released. If the judge is even vaguely fair, he agrees. I again say “FKDH” and sue her and the ATF police for a §1983 violation. After you’ve bankrupted yourself in legal fees and lost your job due to all the time you had to spend in jail and in court, I’m sure Kamala will be generous with you. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/39 "2019-02-16T19:15:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > After you’ve bankrupted yourself in legal fees and lost your job due to all the time you had to spend in jail and in court… That’s where the §1983 lawsuit comes into play. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664/40 "2019-02-16T19:19:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s where the §1983 lawsuit comes into play. Oh, you’re assuming the legal system will side with you in a prompt manner and not after months or years of slow-grinding and expensive proceedings that eat up your savings and a good chunk of your life. Compared to that, statehood for Puerto Rico seems entirely plausible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-declaring-national-emergencies-becomes-a-thing-what-kinds-of-nes-could-the-democrats-do/829664.md?page=3)