# If Democrats decide to pivot from Trump and run on an economic message, they’re doomed **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 28, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992 "2018-05-28T19:50:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/1 "2018-05-28T19:50:06Z")
Andy Puzder: If Democrats decide to pivot from Trump and run on an economic message, they’re doomed > **[Andy Puzder: If Democrats decide to pivot from Trump and run on an economic...](https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/andy-puzder-if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-theyre-doomed)** > > Democratic Party leaders are encouraging their candidates to focus on an economic message rather their opposition to President Trump as they campaign for the November midterm elections. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/2 "2018-05-28T19:55:39Z")
A Trumper preaches doom and gloom for the Democrats. What a shock! ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/3 "2018-05-28T19:55:47Z")
And whenever a Republican gives Democrats advice… ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/4 "2018-05-28T19:59:00Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Andy Puzder: If Democrats decide to pivot from Trump and run on an economic message, they’re doomed > > [Andy Puzder: If Democrats decide to pivot from Trump and run on an economic message, they’re doomed | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/05/25/andy-puzder-if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-economic-message-re-doomed.html) Yes. That is a thing Andy Puzder said. ETA: Actually, that is a headline above some other words that Andy Puzder said. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/5 "2018-05-28T20:22:21Z")
What did Andy Puzder say that was wrong? If you can’t name any, he’s got some significant points, doesn’t he? You won’t see Dem’s running on the economy, but you might see Republican mentioning various accomplishments in a rather short amount of time. The contrast is pretty clear. In fact, I’m not entirely sure what the Democrats will be running on. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/6 "2018-05-28T20:37:18Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > What did Andy Puzder say that was wrong? If you can’t name any, he’s got some significant points, doesn’t he? > > You won’t see Dem’s running on the economy, but you might see Republican mentioning various accomplishments in a rather short amount of time. The contrast is pretty clear. > > In fact, I’m not entirely sure what the Democrats will be running on. Oh. I get it now. You agree with what he wrote. The fact that I can’t point to where he’s wrong just means I haven’t read his editorial. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/7 "2018-05-28T20:53:17Z")
I liked the part where the thread title and the single sentence of the op were almost identical. Then, the faux news link. Bravo. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/8 "2018-05-28T20:56:31Z")
Attack the source, attack the writer, ignore the idea. That’s an excellent debate strategy nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/9 "2018-05-28T20:59:09Z")
What does “pivot from Trump” mean, exactly? Were the Democrats at some point pivoted _toward_ Trump? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/10 "2018-05-28T20:59:32Z")
Octopus, your post was insightful and debateworthy. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/11 "2018-05-28T21:16:53Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What does “pivot from Trump” mean, exactly? Were the Democrats at some point pivoted _toward_ Trump? It means going away from campaigning as being the opposition to trump. Frankly, I’m not all _that_ sure that attacking trump _is_ a winning strategy. After all, the fact that he’s a flaming anus didn’t stop people from voting for him before. Is the argument going to be “He’s _worse_ than we thought.”? (OK, he is, but that’s not the point.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/12 "2018-05-28T21:25:52Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > What did Andy Puzder say that was wrong? If you can’t name any, he’s got some significant points, doesn’t he? What are your favorites? > [@](#): > > You won’t see Dem’s running on the economy There’s that giveaway tax plan that has done nothing for Trump’s base but raise their health care costs. Is that what you’re hoping doesn’t get mentioned? > [@](#): > > but you might see Republican mentioning various accomplishments in a rather short amount of time. Yeah, that oughta be good. I can’t wait. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/13 "2018-05-28T21:50:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Attack the source, attack the writer, ignore the idea. That’s an excellent debate strategy nowadays. A low effort “post” gets a low effort 'rebuttal." If you want a debate on the topic, start one. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/14 "2018-05-28T22:02:00Z")
Hell, the article itself doesn’t even put in any effort. the article boils down to “Conservative economics is right, so Democrats will lose if they run on the economy.” He simply says the economy is great, but offers no evidence. He claims the economy has done a 180 when it hasn’t–people are still having just as much trouble finding jobs. The best he can offer is that things will be better. The article isn’t trying to put forth an actual idea. It is telling its target audience of conservatives that things are great, hoping that will stick in their mind despite actual hardships. It doesn’t even try to appeal to Democrats at all. So, no, there is nothing to discuss from that article, and nothing from the OP. It’s just tactics, not debate. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/15 "2018-05-28T22:08:06Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Andy Puzder: If Democrats decide to pivot from Trump and run on an economic message, they’re doomed > > [Andy Puzder: If Democrats decide to pivot from Trump and run on an economic message, they’re doomed | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/05/25/andy-puzder-if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-economic-message-re-doomed.html) > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > What did Andy Puzder say that was wrong? If you can’t name any, he’s got some significant points, doesn’t he? Here are some specific claims he makes: > [@](#): > > Sixteen months into the Trump presidency, the unemployment rate is at its lowest level in 18 years. Despite a record 155 million people being employed, job openings in March were also at a record high of 6.6 million. There are more good-paying working-class jobs and more openings for good-paying jobs. > > For example, the number of people working in construction is at its highest level since June of 2008 and there were an additional 248,000 job openings in March. The number of people working in manufacturing is at its highest level since December of 2008, with 391,000 additional job openings. > > According to a recent survey by the National Association of Manufacturers, 72 percent of manufacturers are increasing workers’ wages and benefits, while 77 percent are hiring more workers. > > Much to progressives’ dismay, over the past 16 months the economy has done a 180-degree turn. We’ve gone from an economy where the problem was workers being unable to find good-paying jobs to an economy where the problem is businesses being unable to find workers to fill good-paying jobs. I wouldn’t mind seeing Dopers address some of these claims. Clicking one of the articles’ links, I find that > [@](#): > > A recent NAM member survey shows 77% of manufacturers reporting they already plan to increase hiring thanks to tax reform. > > 72% of manufacturers report that they plan to increase wages or benefits for their workers. In other words, that’s what they _say_ they _plan_ to do, not what they actually are doing. All along the Republicans have been _claiming_ that their policies _will_ help average Americans. The issue is whether or not they actually do do so. On the other side, we have opinion pieces like this one: [Democrats Are Running a Smart, Populist Campaign](https://nyti.ms/2J6LKnR) > [@](#): > > “I just don’t see a huge set of divisions in the Democratic Party. They’re all talking about economic issues.” > > Doing so is smart, because it helps Democrats send the most powerful message in politics: _I’m on your side — and my opponent isn’t._ Americans really are divided on abortion, guns, race and other cultural issues, but they’re remarkably progressive on economics. When Democrats talk about health care, education and jobs, they can focus the white working class on the working-class part of its identity rather than the white part. And Democrats can fire up their base at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/16 "2018-05-28T22:22:33Z")
In the real world, Democrats are doing quite well running on an [economic message](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/27/opinion/democrats-populist-campaign-midterm-trump.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region). Also. In the real world, if a conservative columnist says that the left should not do something, the left should do that exact thing. Guaranteed 100% success. I see Thudlow Boink snuck in with the same link just as I was about to post. The points are easy to refute. Every good economic indicator has followed directly on the same upward line from the middle of Obama’s term. Trump has done nothing to add to that, and the tax cut certainly didn’t bend any of those lines sharply upward. The statement that “over the past 16 months the economy has done a 180-degree turn” is a flat-out lie, which is why a) nobody should spend more than a second reading that nonsense and b) why he works for Fox News. If you check his bio, you’ll see that his latest book is titled “The Capitalist Comeback: The Trump Boom and the Left’s Plot to Stop It.” That’s no doubt a totally objective take on the economy. Where is the economy failing? Well, we’re seeing teachers striking in multiple red states! That should be giving thinking Republicans (i.e. not Puzder) nightmares. It is their failed economic policies that has produced the hardship. Those same policies are hurting in other red states as well, Kansas being the most prominent example. All the elections this fall will be local. Every last one. The election is not going to be a referendum on Trump. The voters will be looking at Congress and their state legislators. If they don’t like what they’re seeing, they’ll know who to blame. If they do like the economy they should give all the credit to Obama. That’s why Pudzer and his ilk are so desperately lying. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/17 "2018-05-28T22:47:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Attack the source, attack the writer, ignore the idea. That’s an excellent debate strategy nowadays. Indeed. When you can’t win, attack the source without showing where the facts are wrong. When cornered use humor, but do not debate at any costs! When the USA does well, some people just are not happy. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/18 "2018-05-28T22:51:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > In the real world, Democrats are doing quite well running on an [economic message](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/27/opinion/democrats-populist-campaign-midterm-trump.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region). > > Also. In the real world, if a conservative columnist says that the left should not do something, the left should do that exact thing. Guaranteed 100% success. > > I see Thudlow Boink snuck in with the same link just as I was about to post. > > The points are easy to refute. Every good economic indicator has followed directly on the same upward line from the middle of Obama’s term. Trump has done nothing to add to that, and the tax cut certainly didn’t bend any of those lines sharply upward. The statement that “over the past 16 months the economy has done a 180-degree turn” is a flat-out lie, which is why a) nobody should spend more than a second reading that nonsense and b) why he works for Fox News. If you check his bio, you’ll see that his latest book is titled “The Capitalist Comeback: The Trump Boom and the Left’s Plot to Stop It.” That’s no doubt a totally objective take on the economy. > > Where is the economy failing? Well, we’re seeing teachers striking in multiple red states! That should be giving thinking Republicans (i.e. not Puzder) nightmares. It is their failed economic policies that has produced the hardship. Those same policies are hurting in other red states as well, Kansas being the most prominent example. > > All the elections this fall will be local. Every last one. The election is not going to be a referendum on Trump. The voters will be looking at Congress and their state legislators. If they don’t like what they’re seeing, they’ll know who to blame. If they do like the economy they should give all the credit to Obama. That’s why Pudzer and his ilk are so desperately lying. Obama borrowed billions and had the weakest recovery since the great depression. You can look it up. He left with a decline in the labor rate ( which Trump has since reversed ) and a record amount of people on food stamps. If that is not enough, he accumulated more debt than ALL other Presidents combined. Obama’s part of the top 1% now, taking big money and making speeches from the wall street firms he scolded. Of course not one of the wall street crooks were prosecuted under Obama. Face it, he’s a sell out these days ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/19 "2018-05-28T22:56:49Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Obama borrowed billions and had the weakest recovery since the great depression. You can look it up. He left with a decline in the labor rate ( which Trump has since reversed ) and a record amount of people on food stamps. If that is not enough, he accumulated more debt than ALL other Presidents combined. > > Obama’s part of the top 1% now, taking big money and making speeches from the wall street firms he scolded. Of course not one of the wall street crooks were prosecuted under Obama. Face it, he’s a sell out these days More cite-free, baseless, and/or misleading claims. Trump and the GOP thank you for your efforts in supporting their propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992/20 "2018-05-28T23:01:35Z")
What the heck does it even mean, to say “the weakest recovery since the Great Depression”? Obama’s was the _only_ recovery of that magnitude since the Great Depression. Trump doesn’t even have a recovery. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-democrats-decide-to-pivot-from-trump-and-run-on-an-economic-message-they-re-doomed/814992.md?page=2)