# If Donald Trump didn't inherit any money, where would he be today? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 18, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773 "2018-03-18T12:14:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/41 "2018-03-19T08:42:07Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Waxing that car for George McFly. “I’m just finishing up that second coat now!” ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Max](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9de053/32.png) [@Blue\_Max](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Max)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/42 "2018-03-19T12:36:49Z")
Trump can’t find a doctor that creates a bogus case about bone spurs in his feet. Trump has a profound cowardly streak; in this scenario he’d absolutely try to make any claim he could about not being able to serve. Trump is, however, not a particularly adept liar, and I could see him either being forced to serve or winding up with some kind of criminal infraction over Vietnam. If Trump serves in Vietnam, the statistics are about a 5% shot of him dying, 8% chance of being severely disabled, and 13% of being injured. By the numbers, Trump probably makes it out mentally scarred but physically intact. If Trump doesn’t serve in Vietnam, I’m not sure he goes to college. There’s no real money to pay for it from family, and Trump really doesn’t believe in the value of education anyhow. Either Vietnam or no Vietnam, Trump probably realizes his abilities are best suited to salesmanship, and I could see a serious problem when an ethical company discovers his lack of ethics. What Trump definitely does learn is salesmanship, and arguably because he’s the man making the pitches, not the man managing them, he probably becomes more capable. Trump is a womanizer, plain and simple. He never meets Ivana Zelnickova, Marla Marples or Melania Knavs, but probably has a similar pattern of divorces, affairs and children by different women. The wildcard in this is that Trump can potentially go from being reasonably successful to a busted fraud on a dime. Trump is fired multiple times for integrity issues, and probably serves time for fraud. His relationships potentially break because of it, but Trump is only marginally more honest, and only because he knows he can get caught. Like in our reality, Trump at helps his children, and as he grows older, they’ll make sure he’s not utterly impoverished. Trump today would be a retiree with a mail order bride from Russia, living in a rent controlled apartment, and indulging in golf and McDonalds. Since he’s never made it above perhaps an assistant sales manager, he’s never considered any political maneuvers, much less being President. In addition to not emailing, he doesn’t tweet either. He probably hates the police about as much as he hates the FBI today, but he’s served his time. Ultimately, Trump is somewhat successful and lives a lower class life. He lacks ethics and intelligence to advance socially. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/43 "2018-03-19T13:23:37Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Would Trump have the same personality if he hadn’t been born with a silver spoon in his mouth? I doubt it. I think he’d probably be less narcissistic, less crass, and maybe a less of a bully. Still a jerk, but not as much as one. The OP said he didn’t learn that his father was broke until he was 18. That means he was still born with the silver spoon in his mouth but it was taken away just when he was becoming an adult. He would have all the personality defects that come with his privileged upbringing but none of the resources to back it up. I think he would have taken a job in property management and/or sales for one of his father’s real estate developer friends. He would be renting out properties and selling condos in buildings other people built. This is pretty much what he does now except his name wouldn’t be on the buildings. He might make enough for his employers to climb the ladder a bit. On the side, he’d be sleeping with single moms who couldn’t make their rent that month. He would also always be angling for more and lying about his money. Eventually, his lying and scheming would get him fired and sued. He wouldn’t have managed his real money well enough to have any capital to fall back on. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Look, the question implied by the title of the OP is whether Trump would be successful if not for the inheritance he received from his father. Therefore it’s germane to point out that: > > a) His success clearly was not a result of an inheritance from his father because at the time his father died, Donald Trump had already built, lost, and rebuilt from a billion in the hole a second multi-billion dollar fortune. He built a fortune that he claims was a billion dollars by starting with approximately 1/4 of 200 million in 1974. If he were actually worth a billion, this would be impressive. The only thing we know is that when he claimed to be worth $5 billion in 2009, it was not libel to say he was worth only $150 to $250 million. [Millions, billions: Judge tosses Trump's lawsuit over his worth - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8100467&page=1) Increasing his net worth from circa $50 million to just $250 million in 35 years is terrible performance. If you adjust his returns for the risk he took, it’s even worse. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > b) It’s also clear that to most people 200 to 300 million dollars is a YUGE amount of money. But number one, Donald didn’t inherit 200 to 300 million from his father. Fred Trump’s fortune was divided between Donald and his three siblings and their children. I don’t know how much he finally wound up with but I’d guess around 50 to 80 million. And again, he was already 53 years old and world famous by the time his father died. That ignores any inter-vivos transfers his father made to Trump before he died. It also ignores the number of times his father had to commit capital and reduce his own net worth to bail Little Donnie out. He was a celebrity when his father died but there are a lot of broke celebrities in the world. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > c) Many thousands of people start out with the same advantages that Trump had and don’t accomplish anywhere near as much as Trump has. So clearly his ‘silver spoon’ accounts for very little. If it was the overriding determinant factor, everyone similarly advantaged would have wound up the same or better than he has. I don’t know that there were thousands of heirs expecting and inheritance of $50 million in 1974. I also don’t know how much many of them are worth now since most of them probably have the decency and judgment to not brag about their money. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > d) Claims that the initial amount, if invested in money market funds or whatever, would have earned as much money as he’s worth by now fail to take into account the very large amount of money he’s spent living during all these decades. This is true. The man can undoubtedly spend money. This isn’t really a virtue. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > e) He built his second multi-billion dollar fortune from almost a billion in personal debt. You can’t dig out from under a billion in debt and become a multi-billionaire again in the span of seven years or so without knowing what you’re doing. 1. Your numbers are based on his statements about his net worth. We know what he says it was but he is an unreliable witness about his net worth and finances. He has never offered any evidence. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/trump-lies/?utm\_term=.9ef0cf55dc64](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/trump-lies/?utm_term=.9ef0cf55dc64) 2. You can do that easily with remarkable leverage. For example, if you give me $20 billion in assets and a $21 billion loan, I have a negative net worth of $1 billion. If I just manage to service my debt and my assets appreciate at roughly the rate of inflation (say 3% per year), then I can turn a negative $1 billion net worth into a positive $2 billion in just about 5 years. The result is trivially easy. The hard part is convincing people to give you the loans to begin with. Getting the loans is easier if you started out with all of your father’s connections, you benefit from his backup capital, and you are willing to lie shamelessly when you apply for the loans. Who does that sound like to you? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > f) Trump Sr.'s money couldn’t have been much help to Donald once he’d built up his multi-billion dollar empires because even at the end of his very long life, Fred Sr. was only worth 200 - 300 million. So he had considerably less earlier in Donald’s career, and even if he’d just plain given it all to Donald, it wouldn’t account but for a fraction of Donald Trump’s net worth. How much was Fred Sr.'s net worth reduced by the capital he had committed to bailing out Little Donnie? Here is one example: > **[How Donald Trump's father once bailed out his casino](https://pressofatlanticcity.com/news/how-donald-trump-s-father-once-bailed-out-his-casino/article_934cb836-2c1d-11e6-8a13-173759856fe0.html)** > > Editor's note, this story was originally published June 6, 1991. This only became public because casinos have to file financial reports with the state. Most of his other ventures are private and avoid such scrutiny, so we don’t know how often Little Donnie got bailed out by his dad. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I know you guys are loathe to give him credit for anything. I feel the same way about Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. But at least I can acknowledge that their accomplishments exist. Are we about fighting ignorance here or not? The vast majority of the claims made about Trump are in error, whether factually or analytically. The guy is a jerk, and a lot of other undesirable things too, but it’s just plain folly to claim that he lacks business acumen and owes everything to a relatively small inheritance he received when he was 53. I despise him but I am perfectly willing to acknowledge his accomplishments. Please point to one that is credible. He did manage to get elected President and he passed a tax bill that is almost tailor made to benefit him and his wealthy cabinet members tremendously while helping most Americans as little as possible. Consider these accomplishments acknowledged. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/44 "2018-03-19T13:34:32Z")
Are there any businesses that Trump started himself that didn’t fail? Isn’t that an indication of his own business acumen? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/45 "2018-03-19T13:50:02Z")
He’d have worked his way up to VP Sales of a timeshare condo project in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/46 "2018-03-19T14:58:49Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > He’d be an angry old white guy who watches Fox News constantly and considers himself and other angry old white guys to be persecuted, in some vague and nebulous way. Also, I doubt that he would have remarried after his second divorce. Sounds like he would have voted for Trump! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/47 "2018-03-19T15:20:03Z")
He would be an immensely rich real estate tycoon. > [@msmith537](#): > > Just because Trump is a jerk and liberals hate him doesn’t mean he might not have a knack for his core competencies of real estate and marketing. This. Come on - if he weren’t a brilliant salesman, he wouldn’t be rich - and he is - and he wouldn’t be President. And he is. Right, right - everything he does, fails. Apart from making a shit ton of money, getting his own TV show, and getting elected President, he’s a complete failure. :rolleyes: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/48 "2018-03-19T15:21:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He would be an immensely rich real estate tycoon. We don’t know that he’s immensely rich even now, do we? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/49 "2018-03-19T15:44:55Z")
Donald Trump’s claims about how successful he’s been in his career should be viewed with the same credibility as Bill Clinton’s claims about how faithful he’s been in his marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/50 "2018-03-19T15:50:21Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Belay that. You know the used car salesman in True Lies? That’s Trump. I was thinking Fargo, but yes, car sales. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/51 "2018-03-19T15:52:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Apart from making a shit ton of money, getting his own TV show, and getting elected President, he’s a complete failure. All of which have one thing in common; they’re based on Trump convincing other people they should give him something. Like I said, I give Trump full credit as a salesman. The question is once he’s been given something, how good is he at managing it? It’s already been established he lost a lot of the money that people invested with him. His television show got mediocre ratings. And while he hasn’t completed his career as President, there’s ample evidence he won’t be regarded as a success in that. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/52 "2018-03-19T17:04:21Z")
Considering that _with_ inherited money he ended up poorer (even taking him at his word concerning his net worth) than he would have been just investing the money in index funds and not trying to manage it himself, I expect that the answer to the OP question would leave the phrase “Would you like fries with that?” firmly imprinted onto his Broca’s convolution. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/53 "2018-03-19T17:05:14Z")
> [@Blue\_Max](#): > > Ultimately, Trump is somewhat successful and lives a lower class life. He lacks ethics and intelligence to advance socially. You cannot get any lower-class than the life he’s living right now. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/54 "2018-03-19T17:10:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He would be an immensely rich real estate tycoon. This. > > Come on - if he weren’t a brilliant salesman, he wouldn’t be rich - and he is - and he wouldn’t be President. And he is. > > Right, right - everything he does, fails. Apart from making a shit ton of money, getting his own TV show, and getting elected President, he’s a complete failure. :rolleyes: > > Regards, > Shodan How would this have happened? Without daddy’s backing he doesn’t get the capital or the inherited properties. If he managed to make it as far as his casino bankruptcies, no bank would have lent him a cent. After the bankruptcies he got the inheritance, which saved his fat ass. Do you really believe Trump becomes a real estate tycoon starting with nothing? LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/55 "2018-03-19T17:34:53Z")
Time to invoke a variation of **Shodan’s Law** : If they refuse to acknowledge or believe it the first two dozen times, they won’t acknowledge or believe it the 25th time either. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/56 "2018-03-19T17:36:25Z")
Interesting to contrast Trump with [Alan (now Lord) Sugar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Sugar), the star of the UK version of The Apprentice. He truly is a self-made billionaire who started his business empire after leaving school age 16, selling car radio antennas from the back of a van he bought with his meagre life savings. From what I hear, Trump and Sugar don’t really get on too well. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/57 "2018-03-19T18:28:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Time to invoke a variation of **Shodan’s Law** : If they refuse to acknowledge or believe it the first two dozen times, they won’t acknowledge or believe it the 25th time either. I’m sure there are people who still believe they’ll be getting their check from Bernie Madoff any day now. Some people will keep believing forever in the face of overwhelming evidence rather than admit they were suckered. As Trump himself bragged “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.” He knows his base is made up of eternal suckers who will always believe him no matter how many times he lies to them. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/58 "2018-03-19T18:33:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He would be an immensely rich real estate tycoon. This. > > Come on - if he weren’t a brilliant salesman, he wouldn’t be rich - and he is - and he wouldn’t be President. And he is. > > Right, right - everything he does, fails. Apart from making a shit ton of money, getting his own TV show, and getting elected President, he’s a complete failure. :rolleyes: > > Regards, > Shodan Name a business that he started that succeeded. Is it Trump airlines, Trump steaks, Trump University, Trump vodka, Trump Magazine, Trump mortgages, [GoTrump.com](http://GoTrump.com)? That “Trump” on all those gaudy buildings is from the Trump Organization, started by Fred Trump, not Donald Trump; it’s not Donald’s name on those buildings. He just happens to share a name with the guy whose name is on those buildings. An easy way to be a “rich real estate tycoon” is to be born to a rich real estate tycoon. That’s not an actual skill. Or is it just a wild coincidence that his one and only successful enterprise just so happens to be the one that he was handed on the day he was born? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/59 "2018-03-19T18:45:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Time to invoke a variation of **Shodan’s Law** : If they refuse to acknowledge or believe it the first two dozen times, they won’t acknowledge or believe it the 25th time either. Repeating it 25 times doesn’t make it true. that’s what we call an informal fallacy, and its name is [Proof by assertion.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773/60 "2018-03-19T18:49:50Z")
I prefer to call it “proof by gesticulation”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-didnt-inherit-any-money-where-would-he-be-today/810773.md?page=4)