# If Donald Trump is involved in ordering a hit on Yovanavitch, that's certainly impeachable right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 15, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452 "2020-01-15T14:10:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/21 "2020-01-15T16:40:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I hate, hate, \*hate \*to be a “cite please?” person, but where did you hear this? Left Hand of Dorkness posted a link. I explicitly tried to stay away from posting this in hopes that it wouldn’t become a tangent on the credibility of the evidence revealed so far, which granted is not much. I don’t know if it has been corroborated. So, I tried to keep it purely in the hypothetical. Here is the original source material as well. [https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20200114\_-\_hpsci\_transmittal\_letter\_to\_hjc\_-\_new\_evidence\_attachment.pdf](https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20200114_-_hpsci_transmittal_letter_to_hjc_-_new_evidence_attachment.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/22 "2020-01-15T16:44:35Z")
OK, thanks. Anyhow, if it becomes a thing that Trump ordered a hit on a US ambassador, he’d be yanked out of office pronto. It would make Watergate look like nothing in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/23 "2020-01-15T16:46:58Z")
[Here’s another pretty good explainer](https://www.vox.com/2020/1/14/21066219/impeachment-lev-parnas-evidence-ambassador). The stuff about the apparent surveillance of Yovanovitch is toward the end of the article. It sounds to me like Hyde is claiming to have a contact inside the embassy who is able to provide information on Yovanovitch’s movements. On 3/25, he tells Parnas, “she is being moved tomorrow”. The next day Hyde reports to Parnas that Yovanovitch is not being moved. He says his “contacts” can’t keep asking what’s going on because it will draw attention. He then says: “If you want her out they need to make contact with security forces.” I interpret this as meaning, “If you want Yovanovitch to be moved outside the embassy, my contacts can talk to the security forces and make it happen.” How this would be accomplished I have no idea. Hyde is a former Marine, and I believe Marines handle embassy security, so there’s certainly the possibility that he had contacts there who could influence her movements. But if Hyde is telling Parnas he can arranng for Yovanovitch to leave the embassy, I have to ask, “ **What the actual fuck?** ” I mean, there’s really no innocuous explanation for that. Whether they’re trying to kill her or simply discredit her somehow, it’s fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/24 "2020-01-15T16:49:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I wish I had your optimism. I’m pretty sure most people aren’t agog at the idea you can pay someone to carry out basic surveillance, even in Ukraine. Most people don’t express being agog with “lol”. Eta: not that this isn’t shady as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/25 "2020-01-15T16:54:04Z")
I thought I heard that Hyde is running for Congress from Connecticut. This has got to kill his campaign, if not lead to charges against him. What legitimate reason would he have to monitor the ambassador’s movements? And this damning quote: “They are moving her tomorrow . . . The guys over they [sic] asked me what I would like to do and what is in it for them.” WTF? Who was directing Mr. Hyde? If it came from the Golfer-in-Chief, I’d like to be the first to call it the Strange Case of Doctor Jackoff and Mister Hyde. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/26 "2020-01-15T17:02:27Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Anyhow, if it becomes a thing that Trump ordered a hit on a US ambassador, he’d be yanked out of office pronto. It would make Watergate look like nothing in comparison. Dick Cheney would be saying that’s going too far. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/27 "2020-01-15T17:04:34Z")
To be fair, it also looks like Hyde is pretty unstable. His interactions with the media and pretty much everyone appear to be a long stream of profanity. On May 16, 2019, Hyde turned up at Trump Doral Miami and may have had a mental health emergency: > [@](#): > > According to an “incident/investigation” report filed by the Doral, Florida, police department, on May 16, 2019, an officer was dispatched to the Trump National Doral Miami to deal with a “male in distress fearing for his life.” That man was Hyde. The report noted that Hyde explained to the police officer that “he was in fear for his life, was set up and that a hit man was out to get him. Mr. Hyde spoke about e-mails he sent that may have placed his life in jeopardy. Mr. Hyde explained several times that he was paranoid that someone was out to get him.” > > The report stated that Hyde cited “a variety of different names, contacts and provided information in reference to why he felt his life was in danger.” After being taken into custody by the police, according to the report, “Mr. Hyde continued to act paranoid telling us not to stop next to certain vehicles…[H]e explained that he was scared due to several painting workers and landscape workers trying to do harm to him because they weren’t working. Additionally Mr. Hyde explained that his computer was being hacked by Secret Service. And then went on to further explain that the secret service [sic] was arrival [sic] on the premises watching him.” > > The police report said that “it was determined that Mr. Hyde was suffering from a [redacted],” that he was “transported to [redacted] for further evaluation,” and that a “crisis form was filled and filed.” > > The report classified the incident as “Baker/Marchman Act.” In Florida, the Baker Act and the Marchman Act allow for holding people who might harm themselves involuntarily for assessment. (The Baker Act specifically refers to persons who might be suffering from a mental illness.) The report did not say what happened with Hyde after he was transported to the redacted location. But Hyde posted a note on Instagram stating that he had been “Baker Acted” for nine days and placed into “a facility” where his “mental, emotional, and physical self” were “pushed.” He noted that he had passed “all medicals, physicals, psych exams and diagnoses with flying colors.” Hyde, a former Marine, also wrote, “I’m not a traitor or a colluder or a conspiracy theorist.” And he added, “eff you and your intelligence agencies or whatever or whoever was or is effing with me.” [Cite]([New Figure in Ukraine Scandal Was Taken Into Police Custody at Trump Resort Last Year – Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/01/new-figure-in-ukraine-) scandal-was-taken-into-police-custody-at-trump-resort-last-year). And, at least from the WhatsApp messages I saw excerpted (I haven’t had a chance to read to source documents yet), it looks like Hyde was sending all these messages to Parnas, and Parnas wasn’t responding much. Hyde somehow has the means to donate tens of thousands of dollars to various Republicans, and this has got him lots of photos with people like Trump. But now I’m starting to lean to the explanation that he’s a mentally unwell guy who got Parnas’s contact information and Parnas probably wants him to go away. Parnas’s lawyer said as much in a [Tweet](https://twitter.com/KaraScannell/status/1217445205676384256), denying that Parnas was involved in any surveillance and saying that they believe Hyde’s “activities to be a reflection on his dubious mental state.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/28 "2020-01-15T17:06:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s pretty amazing to read. Also being an incurable optimist, I suspect that Dr. Jekyll’s alter-ego was just playing at being a mob boss because he’s a rich idiot and got caught up in using innuendo, rather than actually making a serious attempt at assassination. Tough talk is one thing. But Hyde says he was actually talking with people and discussing prices. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/29 "2020-01-15T17:08:29Z")
And that’s why I’m posted this as a hypothetical. Certainly, the optics for Hyde are really bad. At least you would think so. Even if he was just being an Internet tough guy and didn’t mean anything by it, the level of creepy context in the text messages is not good. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/30 "2020-01-15T17:14:28Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > To be fair, it also looks like Hyde is pretty unstable. His interactions with the media and pretty much everyone appear to be a long stream of profanity. On May 16, 2019, Hyde turned up at Trump Doral Miami and may have had a mental health emergency: > > [Cite]([New Figure in Ukraine Scandal Was Taken Into Police Custody at Trump Resort Last Year – Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/01/new-figure-in-ukraine-) > scandal-was-taken-into-police-custody-at-trump-resort-last-year/). > > And, at least from the WhatsApp messages I saw excerpted (I haven’t had a chance to read to source documents yet), it looks like Hyde was sending all these messages to Parnas, and Parnas wasn’t responding much. > > Hyde somehow has the means to donate tens of thousands of dollars to various Republicans, and this has got him lots of photos with people like Trump. But now I’m starting to lean to the explanation that he’s a mentally unwell guy who got Parnas’s contact information and Parnas probably wants him to go away. Parnas’s lawyer said as much in a [Tweet](https://twitter.com/KaraScannell/status/1217445205676384256), denying that Parnas was involved in any surveillance and saying that they believe Hyde’s “activities to be a reflection on his dubious mental state.” Fixed link: [New Figure in Ukraine Scandal Was Taken Into Police Custody at Trump Resort Last Year – Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/01/new-figure-in-ukraine-scandal-was-taken-into-police-custody-at-trump-resort-last-year/) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/31 "2020-01-15T17:16:13Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > “Leave the gun. Take the canolli”? Certainly. > A targetted strike on an enemy commander in a theater of war? No. Just to circle back to this; are you saying there might be circumstances in which having an American ambassador killed might be act of war? If so, what would those circumstances be? And what country or group would this act of war be directed against? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/32 "2020-01-15T17:21:46Z")
He was obviously referring to the Soleimani killing. " on Yovanavitch" didn’t originally appear in the title of the thread. (see post #4) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/33 "2020-01-15T17:24:15Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > To be fair, it also looks like Hyde is pretty unstable. His interactions with the media and pretty much everyone appear to be a long stream of profanity. On May 16, 2019, Hyde turned up at Trump Doral Miami and may have had a mental health emergency: > > And, at least from the WhatsApp messages I saw excerpted (I haven’t had a chance to read to source documents yet), it looks like Hyde was sending all these messages to Parnas, and Parnas wasn’t responding much. Hyde does look pretty unstable. But Lev Parnas was communicating with Hyde and was aware enough of what Hyde was saying to respond to him even after Hyde outlined his plans. If Hyde was some lone nut who started this all on his own, Parnas should have contacted the State Department and told them there was a crazy man stalking Yovanovitch. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/34 "2020-01-15T17:24:59Z")
“There is nothing in the Constitution prohibiting the assassination of the ambassador to Ukraine.” — Mitch McConnell, probably ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/35 "2020-01-15T17:28:02Z")
Sure it’s impeachable. If there was undisputed evidence that Trump seriously ordered the US ambassador to the Ukraine to be murdered, then I’m sure the US House would vote to impeach. And then Moscow Mitch and the rest of the traitors would not convict him in the senate. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/36 "2020-01-15T17:31:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > OK, thanks. > > Anyhow, if it becomes a thing that Trump ordered a hit on a US ambassador, he’d be yanked out of office pronto. It would make Watergate look like nothing in comparison. I disagree. Republicans would circle the wagons, as usual. Lies would be told. Stories muddled. “BOTH SIDES! HILLARY MURDERED PEOPLE!” Moscow Mitch would come to Trump’s defense. Yovanavitch would be smeared by Fox News. Republican politicians would humph and haw and say “that’s not a good thing, but…” In short; Nothing would change. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/37 "2020-01-15T17:32:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Hyde does look pretty unstable. But Lev Parnas was communicating with Hyde and was aware enough of what Hyde was saying to respond to him even after Hyde outlined his plans. > > If Hyde was some lone nut who started this all on his own, Parnas should have contacted the State Department and told them there was a crazy man stalking Yovanovitch. Hyde must have trouble with metal detectors what with all the loose screws in his head. However, Parnas had a reason not to attract attention of authorities. He was already in well over his head with Giuliani’s plot. ---
**Author:** ![jo1010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/35a633/32.png) [@jo1010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jo1010)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/38 "2020-01-15T17:48:09Z")
I don’t know what to make of this story. Hyde seems to have a few screws loose, so it’s possible he imagined he was part of a plot against the ambassador. But if I understand the timeline correctly, there was only a few weeks between these messages and the ambassador leaving the country because her life was in danger. Is it just a weird coincidence that Hyde was sending messages about an imaginary assassination plot just a few weeks before she was forced to leave? Or was he part of something that was very real? It’s interesting too that Parnas mostly didn’t respond to Hyde’s messages? Was that because he thought the guy was insane and had no idea what he was talking about? Or did he not want to leave an electronic trail? He did respond to one message which indicates he was at least reading them, not completely ignoring them like you might expect if they were the ravings of a lunatic. It’s understandable that everyone from the Democrats to the media are being cautious with this story for now. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/39 "2020-01-15T17:56:23Z")
The real crux of the biscuit is Giuliani inserting himself into the proceedings, “with the knowledge and consent”, etc. They _may_ have been trying to make her a mite nervous, supply a bit of motivation to get the Hell out of Dodge. But nothing more than that, ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/40 "2020-01-15T18:18:48Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > “There is nothing in the Constitution prohibiting the assassination of the ambassador to Ukraine.” > — Mitch McConnell, probably The Republicans will probably shift the conversation to what a horrible person she was and how she deserved to be murdered and present these fictional bad acts as a valid defense. And they’re not going to get Trump on this without a full scale RICO investigation and no one’s going to go there while he’s in office. Look how long it took the feds to nail John Gotti. Trump has the crime boss methodology nailed down, he’s not going to instruct anyone to do anything illegal, he’ll merely mention illegal things that he thinks should happen and that will inspire his cronies to act on their own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452.md?page=3)