# If Donald Trump is involved in ordering a hit on Yovanavitch, that's certainly impeachable right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 15, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452 "2020-01-15T14:10:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/41 "2020-01-15T18:24:26Z")
Depends, was it going to be on Fifth Avenue? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/42 "2020-01-15T18:47:34Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I would think that definitive proof of a hit ordered on Yovanovitch at Trump’s order or with his assent would fall under the umbrella of attempted murder- she’s an American citizen and as such, should have any issues handled through the justice system, not through extrajudicial means. > > I can’t see how anyone in the GOP or right-wing could actually defend that- it would be deliberate flaunting of the rule of law and in effect saying that it’s ok to murder people as long as you’re the President. > > Also… I can see that resulting in a trial once he’s out of office. \<\\> I think the key would be the definition of definitive proof. So long as there is some possible (not necessarily plausible) scenario under which Trump could be innocent, then the senate and Trump’s supporters will hang onto that fig leaf for dear life. “On the phone call to the hit man Trump never said he wanted Yavonovitch murdered he said he wanted her ‘taken out’. Perhaps he was just referring to her being removed from office?” Even if the evidence is overwhelming as long as any one piece can be discredited, that is what they will concentrate on. “The Democrats claim to have 99 witnesses who say Trump kill Yavonovich in broad daylight, Witness number 72 was so nearsighted that she couldn’t have actually seen Trump pull the trigger, and she was a registered Democrat to boot. The whole thing is a phony witch hunt.” ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/43 "2020-01-15T19:20:16Z")
This story is nuts, but flimsy so far. I am afraid that the GOP represents the Koch Bros. and their kind, and so if it is not in the interests of people like that to remove Trump, it won’t happen. Not even for murder/assassination. What are a few lives compared to tax cuts and deregulation? It is cynical to view the GOP as that monstrous, but as someone else asked, “have you been following the news?” ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/44 "2020-01-15T19:26:03Z")
Also, if Trump can fire her on a whim, why get her whacked? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/45 "2020-01-15T19:34:53Z")
The question is moot because, whatever evidence exists, Republicans will drown it out with procedural complaints and whataboutism and bad-faith jeremiads about “due process.” That is how the people in this thread saying “attempted murder is impeachable” will avoid engaging with an actual impeachment for this crime. To be clear, when you’re part of a conspiracy, you’re part of every crime that the conspiracy committed. So if these Parnas texts are the tip of the iceberg that they appear to be, then Trump may be culpable for conspiracy to commit murder. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/46 "2020-01-15T19:40:26Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Also, if Trump can fire her on a whim, why get her whacked? Dead ambassadors tell no tales. Keep in mind this appears to have taken place well after significant assfuckery was well under way between the Giuliani and the new Ukrainian administration. Something that Yovanovitch was already well aware of. That said, I doubt Trump issued such an order. But if something terrible were to happen to her, it would certainly have made his day. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/47 "2020-01-15T19:53:48Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I would hope this gets a full investigation. > [ul] > [li]Trump says that Yovanovich “will go through some things”[/li][li]Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.[/li][li]Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you’re willing to pay.[/li][li]Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she’s in danger. Leave the country immediately.[/li][/ul] > > WTF is all that? My question from the cheap seats, do we have definite dates for all of these things? The date July 25, 2019 is burned into my memory for bullet point #1. According to the screenshots in the Twitter posts **JohnT** shared [POST=22081458]in the Impeachment Inquiry thread[/POST], bullet point #2 dates to March 25 and March 26, 2019. Not sure what the date is for bullet point #3. I can only guess that it is also March 25, 2019. I don’t know how to date bullet point #4, but it must have been on or before April 25, 2019. April 25, 2019 was the day Ambassador Yovanovitch returned to Washington D.C. ETA: So, re-ordering the list chronologically: [ul][li]3/25-26/2019 - Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.[/li][li]3/25/2019 - Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you’re willing to pay.[/li][li]On or before 4/25/2019 - Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she’s in danger. Leave the country immediately.[/li][li]7/25/2019 - Trump says that Yovanovich “will go through some things”[/ul][/li] ~Max ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/48 "2020-01-15T20:11:29Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > My question from the cheap seats, do we have definite dates for all of these things? > > The date July 25, 2019 is burned into my memory for bullet point #1. > > According to the screenshots in the Twitter posts **JohnT** shared [POST=22081458]in the Impeachment Inquiry thread[/POST], bullet point #2 dates to March 25 and March 26, 2019. > > Not sure what the date is for bullet point #3. I can only guess that it is also March 25, 2019. > > I don’t know how to date bullet point #4, but it must have been on or before April 25, 2019. April 25, 2019 was the day Ambassador Yovanovitch returned to Washington D.C. > > ETA: So, re-ordering the list chronologically: > [ul][li]3/25-26/2019 - Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.[/li][li]3/25/2019 - Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you’re willing to pay.[/li][li]On or before 4/25/2019 - Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she’s in danger. Leave the country immediately.[/li][li]7/25/2019 - Trump says that Yovanovich “will go through some things”[/ul][/li] > ~Max This is a good way of looking at it. It may be noteworthy that July 25th also happens to be the date that Trump was at peak pique about Ukraine’s Zelensky doing him “a big favor tho”. So saying, “she’s going to go through some things”, was Trump’s Goodfella way of impressing upon Zelensky how serious he was about extracting that favor and the length he was willing to go to get his way. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/49 "2020-01-15T20:12:41Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > “There is nothing in the Constitution prohibiting the assassination of the ambassador to Ukraine.” > — Mitch McConnell, probably “Is Marie Yovanavitch dead? No. Therefore, the President did not have her murdered. And it’s not an impeachable offense for a President to make plans to murder an American ambassador. That’s just contingency planning.” ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/50 "2020-01-15T20:17:28Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Also, if Trump can fire her on a whim, why get her whacked? For the optics. A graphic warning to all [del]Deep Staters[/del] law-abiding folks not to FUCK with the Don. Let’s be kind. “Hit” was a metaphor for “removed” aka fired. Just terminated without extreme prejudice. Successfully, stealthily discrediting someone so they’re unable to continue their job is what intel folk call “a nice clean hit”, right? Media trash are “hit pieces”, right? Only career death, not a bloody corpse. No, let’s be paranoid. This POTUS wants his opponents (that’s most of us) jailed or dead. He could process a 5th Ave crowd with an Uzi and not be convicted. The nightmare is real. Even paranoiacs have enemies. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/51 "2020-01-15T20:23:48Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Also, if Trump can fire her on a whim, why get her whacked? For the optics. A graphic warning to all [del]Deep Staters[/del] law-abiding folks not to FUCK with the Don. Let’s be kind. “Hit” was a metaphor for “removed” aka fired. Just terminated without extreme prejudice. Successfully, stealthily discrediting someone so they’re unable to continue their job is what intel folk call “a nice clean hit”, right? Media trash are “hit pieces”, right? Only career death, not a bloody corpse. No, let’s be paranoid. This POTUS wants his opponents (that’s most of us) jailed or dead. He could process a 5th Ave crowd with an Uzi and not be convicted. The nightmare is real. Even paranoiacs have enemies. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/52 "2020-01-15T20:28:04Z")
Lev Parnas to appear on Maddow tonight. Josh Lederman of NBC confirms “TONIGHT: Lev Parnas sitting down with @maddow for an exclusive interview, airing tonight at 9pm on @MSNBC” > ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/53 "2020-01-15T20:28:09Z")
> [@jo1010](#): > > I don’t know what to make of this story. Hyde seems to have a few screws loose, so it’s possible he imagined he was part of a plot against the ambassador. But if I understand the timeline correctly, there was only a few weeks between these messages and the ambassador leaving the country because her life was in danger. Is it just a weird coincidence that Hyde was sending messages about an imaginary assassination plot just a few weeks before she was forced to leave? Or was he part of something that was very real? It’s interesting too that Parnas mostly didn’t respond to Hyde’s messages? Was that because he thought the guy was insane and had no idea what he was talking about? Or did he not want to leave an electronic trail? He did respond to one message which indicates he was at least reading them, not completely ignoring them like you might expect if they were the ravings of a lunatic. It’s understandable that everyone from the Democrats to the media are being cautious with this story for now. As the cliche goes; it’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up. I can see a theory that Robert Hyde is a crazy man who decided to start a plot against Marie Yovanavitch all on his own and that doesn’t implicate the Trump administration - if that’s all there was to this story. But we have evidence that Lev Parnas was aware of what Hyde was doing. And regardless of whether Hyde came up with the plan on his own or the plan was created in the Trump administration and Hyde was brought in as a point man, the fact that Parnas was aware that it was happening and took no actions definitely implicates Parnas. Even if Parnas had no prior knowledge of what Hyde was doing, he should have contacted authorities when he received Hyde’s text messages. The question now is how much higher than Parnas does this go? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/54 "2020-01-15T21:23:47Z")
I’ll be the first to say Trump probably didn’t order her murdered. He isn’t reckless enough to court that kind of blowback, not consciously anyway. However, he does have the nerve to indiscriminately hire the worst sorts of goons and direct them with vague messaging like “whatever it takes”, not really caring what it takes, yet feeling insulated because he didn’t spell it out. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/55 "2020-01-15T21:43:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Rather than whatever grisly shit you’re imagining, they probably just wanted to know who she was meeting with in order to keep ahead of her or to discredit her. But why? If the America-hating fuckstick wanted her gone, he didn’t even NEED an excuse. And if he felt the urge to put a fig leaf on it, _I hire all the best people, and Obama hired only the worst people_ was certainly one he wouldn’t feel any hesitation to deploy. ISTM that he wanted to make sure that she didn’t have a smoking gun that would blow away the Hunter Biden issue before he pulled the trigger (so to speak) on her dismissal. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/56 "2020-01-15T22:03:36Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Rather than whatever grisly shit you’re imagining, they probably just wanted to know who she was meeting with in order to keep ahead of her or to discredit her. Hyde was reporting he already had her under surveillance. So why would he be acting like it was something he was going to do? And why would he be discussing prices with the watchers to do something they had already done? From the context, the most obvious conclusion is that Hyde had placed Yovanavitch under surveillance as just a preliminary step in the overall plan. And now that he had accomplished this, he was working on the next step. Something which was going to cost him more money and involved knowing when Yovanavitch would be out in the open and what kind of security protection she had. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/57 "2020-01-15T22:05:55Z")
… as we all do. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/58 "2020-01-15T22:33:40Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > \*\*\*If \*\*\*Trump did such a thing, \*\*\*and \*\*\*the evidence was overwhelming and clear, he’d be impeached and deposed, for sure. Likely a unanimous vote in House + Senate. You’d have President Pence by the end of the week. I disagree. Thats like going to Georgia in 1940 and saying ‘if the KKK really did lynch that black guy, then the justice system will work the way its supposed to’. Things are pretty fucked up in America. Even if Trump tries to have people killed, the GOP and his base won’t abandon him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/59 "2020-01-15T22:58:23Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Also, if Trump can fire her on a whim, why get her whacked? So she doesn’t squeal, see? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452/60 "2020-01-15T23:22:48Z")
Sure, but dead ambassadors attract A LOT of attention. Remember Benghazi? It just doesn’t seem like something one would expect to get away with, even granting how dumb Trump can be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-donald-trump-is-involved-in-ordering-a-hit-on-yovanavitch-thats-certainly-impeachable-right/846452.md?page=4)