# If drafted to serve in Iraq or the Middle East would you go? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 22, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233 "2006-12-22T16:12:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/41 "2006-12-23T17:48:16Z")
[QUOTE=VCO3] Not only would I not go to the middle east for the reasons stated above, but I think that the insult and indignity of an _actual draft_ to try to put an end to this mess that we willfully created over there would be enough to radicalize me into joining some sort of local violent revolution against the powers that be. [/QUOTE] Fragging is pretty effective ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/42 "2006-12-23T17:58:38Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Fragging is pretty effective [/QUOTE] ? Are you suggesting he joins the Army to shoot/kill fellow Americans that hold NCO or officer ranks? That sounds like truly aweful advice. Was this a non-obvious whoosh? Jim ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/43 "2006-12-23T18:28:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I am cognizant that the organization I am a part of is complicit…, therefore I am complicit. It’s not just the _organization_ you are part of, it’s the **country** you (and I) are part of. So we are all in this together. That’s the greatness of democracy. We’re a nation of laws, even if we don’t agree with all of them. And thanks, **Airman D** , for doing what is right. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/44 "2006-12-23T18:32:15Z")
While I agree with airman doormans post in general, one of the rights of americans is to hold our leaders accountable, it is in fact our duty to question, and challenge them. having voted against the people that made the war, and having protested it before it began I feel no obligation to fight it now. An obligation to my fellow citizens, to the ideals of america, to the servicemen, yes, but not to oil profits, or republican asendancy. if american sovereignty became threatened that would be different. having said that, as an er nurse, I would probably go and ply my trade. I would have no reservations about nursing in iraq, although I might get nailed for caring for the enemy. forgive my crummy punctuation, i’ve broken a rib, and economy of motion is paramount ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/45 "2006-12-23T18:40:01Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Since your objection is mostly philosophical, I’d like to add a philosophical point of my own in response: You do owe to the nation-state. What you are, what you have become, and what you will do in the future is entirely a function of your surroundings. [/QUOTE] State != Society ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/46 "2006-12-23T18:47:02Z")
[QUOTE=Steve MB] State != Society [/QUOTE] And IMHO != Great Debates. Please give your answer to the question at hand and move on. If you wish to debate the morality of a draft, please start a new thread in the appropriate forum. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/47 "2006-12-23T18:54:20Z")
If I received a draft notice, I would find the best constitutional lawyer I could, fight being enlisted, and hopefully my case would end up before the Supreme Court, where we would finally resolve the question of “can the Federal government conduct a draft without a congressional declaration of war?” Sez Cecil, in [Is the draft forbidden by the 13th Amendment?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_140b.html) > [@](#): > > On the other hand, you could make a plausible case that the Constitution forbids Congress to send conscripts off to fight an undeclared war, or to conduct a peacetime draft. The theory here is that while Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution empowers Congress to “provide for the common defense” and “raise and support armies,” the framers simply meant to establish a professional army, composed of volunteers. This is not as off the wall as it sounds. You will recall that early Americans found the British Navy’s practice of forcibly inducting men into service pretty obnoxious, and it is unlikely they would turn around and authorize a draft. > > The Constitution does permit the separate states (or “the several states,” as we legal scholars like to put it) to organize militias for home defense (note the Second Amendment), and in the broadest sense the militia in colonial times consisted of every male 18 and over who was healthy enough to carry a gun. So (in this view, anyway), while the federal government can’t draft people, the states can. > > What enables the federal government to conduct the draft is clause 15 of Article I, Section 8, which permits Congress to call out the militia to “execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasion.” This means that Congress can send draftees off to foreign countries after a declaration of war, which has the force of law. But it doesn’t include undeclared conflicts like Vietnam. And presumably it wouldn’t include a peacetime draft. > > A number of inductees pursued this notion during the Vietnam period, with mixed success. The government’s case was shaky, but for political reasons the judiciary was reluctant to declare Uncle Sam’s military adventures illegal. So the cases tended to drag out. On a number of occasions the Selective Service people found excuses to reject potential draftees when it appeared they might have a good chance of winning a court fight. There is at least one case on record of a man whom the Army honorably discharged before the end of his term, simply to avoid the possibility of an embarrassing court ruling. > > At any rate, nothing was ever settled and no precedent was ever set. But the issue might come up again if a peacetime draft is ever reinstituted. We await developments. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/48 "2006-12-23T19:14:35Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] ? Are you suggesting he joins the Army to shoot/kill fellow Americans that hold NCO or officer ranks? That sounds like truly aweful advice. Was this a non-obvious whoosh? Jim [/QUOTE] 1. I am saying what **I** would do - personally I would advize anyone with sons to ship them elsewhere. 2. Sometimes killing idiots saves lives. Not that I consider life particularly valuable, but if I found myself with a bunch of young’uns I would not find it an ethical quandary. My views were formed by relics from 1945, I inherit their attitudes. We have been fed a lot of propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/49 "2006-12-23T19:28:40Z")
Only if my going would keep my son from having to go. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/50 "2006-12-24T01:19:35Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] And IMHO != Great Debates. Please give your answer to the question at hand and move on. [/QUOTE] Given this, I’ll just register my agreement with **Steve MB** ’s distinction; if folks want an elaboration on that distinction (as well as on the nature of permissible repayments for a debt), they’ll need to look for it elsewhere, I guess. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/51 "2006-12-24T02:04:47Z")
I’m 21, openly gay, suffered from epilepsy as a child, get migraines, overweight, and had my kneecap rebuilt last spring. For me to be drafted the Army would have to seriously lower it’s standards. For me to even be willing to serve several conditions would need to be met; the homeland would need to be facing an actual invasion (or 2nd Civil War, but who’s to say I’d side with the gov’t 😉 ), I would not hide my orientation or abstain from sexual activity anymore than hetersexual soldiers must, any partner I may have would need _every_ single right and benefit given to spouses of military personal, and my freedom of speech would need to remain intact (ie I’d need to be able to publically say _whatever_ I whatever I want about POTUS or anyone else in the chain of command with consequences no more severe than I’d get for critizing a civilian employer). If the President (or SecDef, SecState, etc) wants a photo op I’d need to have the freedom to not shake their hand and if they chose to speak to me to tell them exactly what I think about them or their policies :mad: . Oh and if I’m expected to call someone “sir” or “ma’am” on a regular basis they’d better address me as sir too. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/52 "2006-12-24T03:09:46Z")
Pentagon to **alphaboi867** : Don’t call us, we’ll call you. 😉 Me to **Airman Doors** : Well said, and thank you for your service to our country. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/53 "2006-12-24T03:14:00Z")
Well, they _shot_ [Eddie Slovak.](http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1987/6/1987_6_97.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/54 "2006-12-24T03:36:02Z")
I’m too old to get drafted but I wouldn’t go anyway. I’m already in Minnesota, it would be a piece of cake to get to Canada. I don’t feel like I “owe” my country anything and even if I did, what the hell does Iraq have to do with protecting the country? ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/55 "2006-12-24T21:19:58Z")
Since the way the Bush administration is dealing with enlistment shortfalls is to force former soldiers back into the ranks, I could actually _be_ drafted to go to Iraq. And I’d go. I think Iraq is a better option than prison. My ex has been twice so far and come back in one piece both times. He just left for his third time, this time for no less than a year. It’s getting so that I am rather nonchalant about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233/56 "2006-12-25T02:48:32Z")
If Japan were invaded, I would serve to protect my new home. America? When I left back in 1995, I planned to come back someday. The past few years, however, have made it clear that it just ain’t my country anymore. A draft attempt would simply be the final good-bye note. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-drafted-to-serve-in-iraq-or-the-middle-east-would-you-go/385233.md?page=2)