# If Einstein got it all wrong - expert opinions needed **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026 "2010-05-11T08:53:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/81 "2010-05-13T17:35:55Z")
> [@katunari](#): > > Actually I was waiting this (from Angua, though). I had to get high on caffiene and make more shit up. ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/82 "2010-05-13T17:56:04Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > You seem to think that it’s all or nothing - a particle OR a wave. If so, ISM that your understanding of such things is limited (possibly by choice, i.e. repudiating all that doesn’t fit in with your _Weltanschauung_). You are right - I started this, because I did not like Einstein’s phrase - simpleminded me. “You should not mention your Creator’s name in vain” (or something). Curvation=beautiful. YES in many places, but can the Dear Lord come up with something more perfect. YES. I oppose to Einstein because of this. According to my Bible Einstein was wrong and I’m not that religious… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/83 "2010-05-13T18:31:03Z")
> [@katunari](#): > > You are right - I started this, because I did not like Einstein’s phrase - simpleminded me. “You should not mention your Creator’s name in vain” (or something). Curvation=beautiful. YES in many places, but can the Dear Lord come up with something more perfect. YES. What’s imperfect about it? ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/84 "2010-05-13T18:42:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What’s imperfect about it? “That’s for me to know and you to find out”. But I’ll tell it to you anyway: The Dear Lord made fun of Einstein - it was just an optical error. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/85 "2010-05-13T18:45:47Z")
> [@katunari](#): > > “That’s for me to know and you to find out”. But I’ll tell it to you anyway: The Dear Lord made fun of Einstein - it was just an optical error. I’ll bite. What was an optical error? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/86 "2010-05-13T18:49:14Z")
Isn’t your argument for an “optical error” simply that the curvature of light doesn’t conform to your personal notion of an aesthetically “perfect” universe? If that’s the case, then you need to at least explain what “perfect” means, and why the curvature of light would not conform to “perfection.” I mean, that’s barely scratching the surface of the fallacies embedded in your thesis, but at leats begin by defining your terms. Actually, your whole angle sounds like witnessing to me more than anything. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/87 "2010-05-13T18:53:18Z")
**Katunari** , you really have no idea what [the photoelectric effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelectric_effect) is, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/88 "2010-05-13T18:55:01Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > I’ll bite. What was an optical error? Actually, let me clarify my question: **Katunari** , what, exactly, are you claiming to be an optical error? ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/89 "2010-05-13T18:56:58Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > When your favorite program ends, try tackling this one. > > Particles have a property called spin (formally fermionic intrinsic spin). They aren’t actually spinning, but the property is analogous to angular momentum, so we can call it that for convenience. They can have either a right-handed spin or a left-handed spin. > > The weak force is known to affect only particles with left-handed spin. To quote Lisa Randall: > Please explain this in terms of waves. I’m not even a student of Physics, but does all this have something to do with light? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/90 "2010-05-13T18:58:08Z")
> [@katunari](#): > > “That’s for me to know and you to find out”. But I’ll tell it to you anyway: The Dear Lord made fun of Einstein - it was just an optical error. This isn’t right. It’s not even wrong. It’s just nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/91 "2010-05-13T18:58:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Actually, your whole angle sounds like witnessing to me more than anything. I think that’s the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/92 "2010-05-13T18:58:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually I was waiting this (from Angua, though). If you have a bunch of photons, how can they go everywhere. If you are talking in numbers, there are places where the photons go , and so there must be a place where the photon do not go - that is the law with numbers. Can you distinguish the places where these photons don’t go? Are there places with no light at all? Yes, though in practice there are enough photons from a light source that you have to get extremely far away for this to happen. ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/93 "2010-05-13T19:08:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, though in practice there are enough photons from a light source that you have to get extremely far away for this to happen. My intuition says that you could test this relatively easily. To get one to million photons you need a gram of hydrogen in a vacuum. Then you add some heath and get one to million photons. At a range of one meter there would be more totally dark places than light. Well? Spectrum?:smooth: ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/94 "2010-05-13T19:13:55Z")
> [@katunari](#): > > You are right - I started this, because I did not like Einstein’s phrase - simpleminded me. “You should not mention your Creator’s name in vain” (or something). Curvation=beautiful. YES in many places, but can the Dear Lord come up with something more perfect. YES. I oppose to Einstein because of this. According to my Bible Einstein was wrong and I’m not that religious… Okay, but as it stands, the Good Lord did make the Universe as Einstein worked it out. If He actually did make it differently (more complex or more subtle) then He still made it in such a way that Einstein’s theories describe what we can see (so far). If there are further profundities to be described, then these will build on Einstein’s work, or show that Einstein was not able to see far enough. It will not invalidate Einstein’s theories – we would then know that Einstein’s equations only describe a part of reality. Just as the Lord could hav emade a better fruit than the Strawberry, but He hose not to, so the Lord could have made a non-Einsteinian Universe, but He seems to have chosen not to do so. ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/95 "2010-05-13T19:14:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Isn’t your argument for an “optical error” simply that the curvature of light doesn’t conform to your personal notion of an aesthetically “perfect” universe? If that’s the case, then you need to at least explain what “perfect” means, and why the curvature of light would not conform to “perfection.” > > I mean, that’s barely scratching the surface of the fallacies embedded in your thesis, but at leats begin by defining your terms. > > Actually, your whole angle sounds like witnessing to me more than anything. I’m not that religious. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/96 "2010-05-13T19:18:19Z")
> [@katunari](#): > > My intuition says that you could test this relatively easily. To get one to million photons you need a gram of hydrogen in a vacuum. Then you add some heath and get one to million photons. At a range of one meter there would be more totally dark places than light. Well? Spectrum?:smooth: Your intuition is correct. Unfortunately, our measuring devices find it very hard to slice time small enough to get an \*instantaneous \*impression of where photons are. The next one will hit right next to the one we are measuring almost immediately, and because they splash energy into the detecting device when they are captured, they tend to smear. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/97 "2010-05-13T19:30:40Z")
> [@katunari](#): > > I’m not even a student of Physics Yes, we get that. We get that because you tell us you don’t understand the basic vocabulary of the subject, that you don’t read or believe any of the textbooks on the subject, that you think scientists accept theories based on blind belief, that your religious convictions outweigh scientific evidence even though you aren’t religious, that physicists don’t know how to do experiments, and that your personal feelings about the universe ought to be true no matter what others say. What we don’t get is why you keep posting questions here if you have no intention of listening to any of the responses. ---
**Author:** ![JDGates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@JDGates](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDGates)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/98 "2010-05-13T19:32:12Z")
> [@katunari](#): > > My intuition says that you could test this relatively easily. To get one to million photons you need a gram of hydrogen in a vacuum. Then you add some heath and get one to million photons. At a range of one meter there would be more totally dark places than light. Well? Spectrum?:smooth: As **Angua** will no doubt be happy to attest to, X-ray astronomers quite frequently make observations of distant objects that involve fewer than one photon per second plunking onto a quite macroscopic detector. ('Course, if you’re not okay with the particle nature of light then you probably think that the CCDs in those telescopes are just making up their data. Not to mention the ones in digital cameras.) ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/99 "2010-05-13T19:50:53Z")
> [@JDGates](#): > > ('Course, if you’re not okay with the particle nature of light then you probably think that the CCDs in those telescopes are just making up their data. Not to mention the ones in digital cameras.) My point of view is that light has effect only with respect to the normal to the surface. If you use parabolic lenses it will result only as a collision of two surfaces - a light wave and a lens. But there is more to it. That’s why I came up with the intensity of light as a square of distance. Nobody argued with that. “Bunch of photons” - you quess what I think of that… ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026/100 "2010-05-13T20:04:34Z")
> [@JDGates](#): > > As **Angua** will no doubt be happy to attest to, X-ray astronomers quite frequently make observations of distant objects that involve fewer than one photon per second plunking onto a quite macroscopic detector. _One_ photon per second? I would **kill** for a count rate of one photon per second\*! ::checks current dataset:: I have a whole bunch (technical term there 😉 ) of galaxy clusters here with count rates of about **0.05 photons/s**. And guess what? I can get spectra, images, and the whole shebang from my 0.05 photons/s. Provided, of course, that I stare at my galaxy cluster for long enough. \*Actually, I probably wouldn’t. It’d lead to too many photons to actually count and just annoy me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-einstein-got-it-all-wrong-expert-opinions-needed/539026.md?page=6)