# If Europeans had settled in Africa would they have done a better job than current Africans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648 "2016-05-25T12:10:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/81 "2016-05-27T19:24:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, if the Europeans had never visited the America’s can you say they would have advanced any? They failed to do so for centuries. They failed to invent writing for centuries, but then they did it, before the Euros came. When Cortez landed both the Aztec and Maya cultures had their systems of pictographic writing. And, I have read, the Mesoamericans were at that time just starting to learn to work copper. Give them another century and they might have been well into their own Bronze Age. The Peruvians started out as hunter-gatherers like everybody else, but they advanced – when Pizarro came they had built up a Neolithic empire with cities, roads, high-intensity agriculture, textiles, the _quipu_ (a system of encoding information in knotted cords – no good for poetry, but good enough for accounting), organized armies, and centralized government over an area larger than Spain. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/82 "2016-05-27T19:33:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They failed to invent writing for centuries, but then they did it, before the Euros came. When Cortez landed both the Aztec and Maya cultures had their systems of pictographic writing. And, I have read, the Mesoamericans were at that time just starting to learn to work copper. Give them another century and they might have been well into their own Bronze Age. Yes, but it wasn’t widespread. But sure- maybe. Almost entirely used for ornaments, oddly. So, I’ll give you a _possible maybe_, but it was a fairly stagnant region, technology wise and culture wise. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/83 "2016-05-27T20:01:28Z")
I don’t think Africans or Americans or Asians needed Europeans to actually build new technologies in their homelands. It would have been enough just to have knowledge that the technology existed. They could have then duplicated European technology without European political control. For an example, look at Japan. It was never occupied by any European imperial power. But Japan was able to develop itself into a modern technological country. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/84 "2016-05-27T20:07:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > East of the Mississippi. > [Mound Builders - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mound_Builders#/media/File:Hopewellsphere2_map_HRoe_2008.jpg) So, not any large empires (sorry, "larg_ish_ empires"on the East Coast (You _were_ aware that the [Swift Creek culture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Creek_culture) was not exactly Cahokia, right? I guess not…), then, and mostly developed in the Mississippi Valley, Ohio Valley and Great Lakes region, like I said. > [@](#): > > I like that “ignorance” thing, it really brings the level of the debate up. It’s only a debate if you actually bring facts rather than ignorance, like your ignorance of preColumbian cultures and your ignorance of the non-contributions of Boers to the current state of South Africa. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Of course, that’s not what I said. Which is why I had it in quotes not a box. What’s your point? It’s a good sarcastic paraphrase of you saying > [@](#): > > \Boer > It’s one of the reasons why South Africa is not quite the cesspit that most of the rest of sub-Saharan Africa is. > [@](#): > > And it seems to be your usual level of reasoned discourse here. Yeah, “Those racist fuckers who oppressed you for years were actually _good_ for your country”, _that’s_ “reasoned discourse”.:rolleyes: What’s next ? “The Klan - good for the South, great for the Negro!”? “Nazis! Just what the Jews needed!” Please, give me more of this “reasoned discourse” you value so much. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/85 "2016-05-27T20:11:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > For an example, look at Japan. It was never occupied by any European imperial power. But Japan was able to develop itself into a modern technological country. But those are Asians - they’re inscrutably clever, don’t you know? At least, that’s what the race realists tell us. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/86 "2016-05-27T20:54:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But those are Asians - they’re inscrutably clever, don’t you know? At least, that’s what the race realists tell us. They also tell us that Asians “less fecund” than other races . . . so, why are there so many of them?! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/87 "2016-05-27T21:16:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Which is why I had it in quotes not a box. What’s your point? It’s a good sarcastic paraphrase of you saying Yeah, “Those racist fuckers who oppressed you for years were actually _good_ for your country”, _that’s_ “reasoned discourse”.:rolleyes: What’s next ? “The Klan - good for the South, great for the Negro!”? “Nazis! Just what the Jews needed!” Please, give me more of this “reasoned discourse” you value so much. I didn’t say that either. But perhaps when you quit putting words in other peoples mouths and beating up on make-believe strawmen, we could debate. But I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/88 "2016-05-27T21:23:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I didn’t say that either. No kidding. I wonder who here is confused as to when I’m quoting you vs when I’m making rhetorical paraphrases that point out the absurdity of your idea of “reasoned discourse” Because anyone who calls most of an entire continent (and this _is_ a quote) > [@](#): > > a cesspit is going to be soooo capable of “reasoned discourse”. Yeah, that’s the kind of non-toxic well-water you just want to\* lap up\*!:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Commodore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Commodore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commodore)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/89 "2016-05-28T04:20:24Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > You start with a premise like this and ask whether it would be better this way??? > > I’m sure if the Nazis had succeeded in wiping out every last Jew it would have been “better” for the Nazis. > > What was your point again? Most of the top Nazis are of Jewish bloodline as are of the German race. There are more Jewish blood people in Germanys history than any other nation in the world, if you know it’s history. Well the Europeans did settle in Africa and they did do a better job of living standards, that’s just a fact. The Jews in general do better than all other nations because if you understand the OT you would understand that they are not a people who are just simple minded, without bugger all direction like most others are. It’s been instilled in them from their family’s line to be as such and too just lay about was totally looked down on. The fact is if your culture is trash you nation will be trash. look at all the nations nowadays that are becoming trash, it’s because they are just trash or they are being lead by trash. As to a better job of it ? what does that truly mean, more advanced or living in better harmony or better standard of living or a better family values and respect for your fellow man. ---
**Author:** ![Commodore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Commodore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commodore)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/90 "2016-05-28T04:30:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think Africans or Americans or Asians needed Europeans to actually build new technologies in their homelands. It would have been enough just to have knowledge that the technology existed. They could have then duplicated European technology without European political control. > > For an example, look at Japan. It was never occupied by any European imperial power. But Japan was able to develop itself into a modern technological country. What was wrong with Japan before it became modern tec . They were happy and proud people. No one had the right to interfere with them, or say they were no good etc. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/91 "2016-05-28T05:02:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But those are Asians - they’re inscrutably clever, don’t you know? At least, that’s what the race realists tell us. Yes, yes, Dibble. Even when other people are pointing out how bad racism is, you need to jump in and remind everyone that nobody is more opposed to racism than you are. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/92 "2016-05-28T06:20:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, yes, Dibble. Even when other people are pointing out how bad racism is, you need to jump in and remind everyone that nobody is more opposed to racism than you are. It’s not a competition, **Little**. Me pointing out underlying racism doesn’t erase any posts you or others may make. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648/93 "2016-05-28T07:34:45Z")
Since the OP has been banned for trolling, I’m closing this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-europeans-had-settled-in-africa-would-they-have-done-a-better-job-than-current-africans/755648.md?page=4)