# If everyone was an animal could society still function? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 2, 2023, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514 "2023-01-02T07:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/21 "2023-01-02T14:43:36Z")
I’m imagining something like **“Bojack Horseman”**. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/22 "2023-01-02T15:24:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We have a hard enough time feeding eight billion humans; how are we going to feed eight billion horses and giraffes and lynxes and so on? It’s much worse than that. No matter how adaptive we are in our new bodies, our agriculture and transportation systems will fail immediately. There will be no food moving into our primary population centers. The green spaces will be stripped of edible material within days or hours. Packs of intelligent hunters will begin wiping out the slower and weaker animals. Billions will die. It will be horrific. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/23 "2023-01-02T15:28:01Z")
Yeah, good reason to stick with “raven”. I can feed on the leftover parts of the dead, and escape the hunters into the air. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/24 "2023-01-02T15:37:15Z")
I’m wondering about genetics. Do the ex-humans retain their human genes despite their new shapes? If so, can a human-fox and a human-rabbit mate? If their genetics change, too, then human-fox with fox-fox should be fertile, too. But what does “retain their human intelligence” mean in that case? The offspring are human level? Fox level? Some average in between? What does it mean in terms of what can eat what? Would panther-me someday end up in court protesting, But how was I supposed to know that he wasn’t just a deer-deer? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/25 "2023-01-02T15:43:08Z")
Flying omnivores seem well-positioned to escape the cities and survive long-term, yep. Or at least longer-term. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/26 "2023-01-02T15:44:15Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I picked raven over parrot because ravens fly so much better. And i think they are more dextrous, although I’m not certain. But speech is huge, and maybe I’d be happier as an African gray parrot. Ravens can talk, too. Poe wasn’t just making that up: Some crows and ravens really do mimic human speech. And yeah, I thought about the lifespan issue, too. Compared to other mammals, humans live freakishly long. Though birds fare better there. On thinking about it, the best-case scenario might be if we were all turned into ravens: Dexterous enough that we might be able to get technology going again, and small and omnivorous enough that we might be able to survive until we get to that point. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/27 "2023-01-02T15:52:18Z")
I doubt the world can feed 8 billion ravens. Maybe another 8 billion ants. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/28 "2023-01-02T15:53:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Ravens can talk, too. Poe wasn’t just making that up: Some crows and ravens really do mimic human speech. Yes, I’ve heard of real cases of ravens speaking identifiable human words, appropriately, even. But i don’t think they speak very well. I imagine actually holding a conversation would be challenging ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/29 "2023-01-02T15:55:39Z")
Hmm, parrots live a lot longer than ravens. A raven’s total lifespan is about my expected future lifespan. ---
**Author:** ![Celtic\_Kitsune](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celtic_kitsune/32/12086_2.png) [@Celtic\_Kitsune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celtic_Kitsune)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/30 "2023-01-02T15:56:45Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > When the OP said human brain, I took that to mean you’re still going to want to be with humans. Just that you still have human-level intelligence and your own mind, personality and memories. Of course if that’s all running on a non-human brain you’d also have the instincts and desires of your new form. Which may cause…problems. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, good reason to stick with “raven”. I can feed on the leftover parts of the dead, and escape the hunters into the air. 😉 Yes I’m glad I live way out in the countryside, I could hide in the woods until it all blew over then head into town and feast on what’s left of the dead. Sweet. Then find a nice tod and settle down, it’s all good. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > They are social, can fly long distances, have keen senses, and are dextrous enough that i wouldn’t go nuts missing what i used to be able to do with my hands. Actually my second choice of species would be Burmese Python because to quote Marge Simpson I just think they’re kind of neat, and if you have to be a non-human it may as well be something _really_ different. I do live in a temperate climate so I hope someone would invent a wrap-around body-warmer or something. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > A different version of the OP’s question that might also be interesting is the idea of intelligence up to human reasoning and self-awareness levels but developing in very different species in various niches, and more or less simultaneously. And not necessarily with human cussedness. IOW, same idea as the OP, but don’t import human behaviors. And / or don’t make the scenario flow from post- 21st Century humanity; rather instead the scenario flows from a world that never had humans. That is an interesting scenario though I admit part of the reason for my OP is simply that I’m curious what new species people would choose to be and why. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If we get the lifespan of the creature chosen, elephant’s the best of those choices; but they’re too large to fit into any of our old infrastructure. Octopus and raccoon are both really short lived, by human standards. – am I the first one to think of this issue? Yes good point but ‘One Day as a Fox’ and all that. 😉 > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Even if you’re right that species wouldn’t cooperate (and there’s a whole lot of interspecies cooperation that goes on at current levels of intelligence), that wouldn’t mean no society; it would mean a lot of different societies. That’s what I suspect would happen, total global collapse and then smaller communities and societies would rise from the ashes, we would probably still have technology but at a much lower level. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If we had the sensoriums of the species we chose, probably a lot of us would want to mate with others of our species. Most might only do so with the enhanced-intelligence versions, of course. Agreed, might be a bit awkward to figure out if the other person is a former human or not though. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I’m wondering about genetics. > > Do the ex-humans retain their human genes despite their new shapes? If so, can a human-fox and a human-rabbit mate? > > If their genetics change, too, then human-fox with fox-fox should be fertile, too. But what does “retain their human intelligence” mean in that case? The offspring are human level? Fox level? Some average in between? > > What does it mean in terms of what can eat what? Would panther-me someday end up in court protesting, But how was I supposed to know that he wasn’t just a deer-deer? I figured you become 100% physically your new chosen species, only difference as that your intelligence remains the same, so no hybrids…though that is a fun idea. And I imagine the children of a post-human fox and an ordinary fox would have the intelligence of the former. That or course raises the question of how long it would be before the entire population of the species is Fox+ of course! Which is an interesting scenario in itself. And I suspect though intelligent various species would think in ways very different than each other. And as for diet perhaps former humans would have some sort of recognition signal so we don’t end up eating each other? Then again the psychos would have a field day. We probably would need some sort of legal system and post-human Police Force! * * * I still can’t get the hang of the quote system so I may have messed this up, I’d probably be as well off typing with paws. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/31 "2023-01-02T16:19:25Z")
The more I read the more I stick with my idea of the whale: long life, far away from trouble, eats something nobody will choose to become. Because frankly: what is to stop the _homo wolfes_ from eating the _homo sheep_ and calling it the ultimate form of collaboration? The justice system? With DAs that cannot write, judges that can not reason, lawyers that cannot lie, policemen that cannot pull the trigger, jails whose doors cannot be locked? I prefer to stay as far away as possible from that. Or, if I must, I would consider choosing the Tyranosaurus as the animal to be. Come get me. Be my meal. ---
**Author:** ![2\_More\_Bits](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2_more_bits/32/4148_2.png) [@2\_More\_Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2_More_Bits)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/32 "2023-01-02T16:32:09Z")
I pick raccoon! ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/33 "2023-01-02T16:32:17Z")
> [@Celtic\_Kitsune](#): > > might be a bit awkward to figure out if the other person is a former human or not Most species could I think at least draw words or diagrams in patches of mud, sand, or soil. Of course, by asking your prey to do so, you’ve lost any possible element of surprise in catching them, and will probably go hungry either way – anybody else in this thread read Digger? But if this question’s being asked in the potential-mating situation, rather than the potential-prey situation, that should be much less of an issue. Anybody who runs frantically away from you is certainly not consenting. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/34 "2023-01-02T16:46:40Z")
Dibs on Raccoons. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/35 "2023-01-02T16:57:02Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Anybody who runs frantically away from you is certainly not consenting. Oh, now you tell me. That explains a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/36 "2023-01-02T18:40:33Z")
I’m confident enough in the general unimaginative mind of most people that I predict we’d end up with billions of domesticated cats and dogs with zero ability to survive without the existence of human beings. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/37 "2023-01-02T18:48:26Z")
Feral cats and dogs are a thing, and do fine without humans. Now, there’s not enough prey for a billion of them. But that’s going to be a problem with every animal. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/38 "2023-01-02T18:53:40Z")
Feral cats and dogs aren’t burdened with human brains and I suspect their primary diet is human garbage. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/39 "2023-01-02T20:15:18Z")
In the city, maybe. Out here it’s mice and baby rabbits and whatever else they can catch. But the lifespan of a feral cat is usually short and difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514/40 "2023-01-02T21:37:20Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Vehicles etc. are designed to be operated by beings of human proportions. The intelli-animal world would need to modify everything to fit a wide variety of animal shapes. But how to do it, without the human hands? Given human-level intelligence, I’m reasonably certain that a team of cats or dogs would be able to operate some machinery the way it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-everyone-was-an-animal-could-society-still-function/977514.md?page=3)