# If (fill-in-the-blank) dies in the '70s, so does Star Trek? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946 "2016-02-12T16:25:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/21 "2016-02-12T18:23:37Z")
If you had killed off Bjo Trimble, there wouldn’t have been a third season, and, in all probability, no Trek movies or sequel series. She was pretty much single-handedly responsible for the Trek fan phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/22 "2016-02-12T20:10:09Z")
If you go back a decade or so it never would have happened without Lucille Ball. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/23 "2016-02-12T20:38:33Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I think there was such a pent-up enthusiasm among the fans for more Star Trek that they could have moved Gavin Macleod from the Love Boat to the Enterprise, and it would have succeeded. Yea, I think its popularity in syndication, and the success of other sci-fi movies in the late 70’s, means they would’ve gone ahead even if they couldn’t get any of the original cast back. Paramount was going to make a sci-fi film, and the fact that they already owned a property with a passionate following made a ST film more or less inevitable, with or without the original cast. How successful it would have been from there presumably depended on how successful the resulting hypothetical movie would’ve been. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/24 "2016-05-02T02:58:00Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > [@Voyager](#): > > > > So it is possible that a movie could get made without Shatner, but it wouldn’t have been the same. > > No, it might have been better. > > There really wasn’t anything wrong with Decker’s character that would have prevented a good show or movie with him the the big chair. Maybe without the Shat’s line-counting, scene chewing ego clogging everything up, maybe Phase II/TMP might have been a great show/movie, rather than the stillborn/boring mess it was. > > Don’t get me wrong - Kirk was absolutely necessary for TWoK (the best ST movie evah!), but quite possibly a different greatest movie evah could have been made just as well without Kirk. Sorry to reply to this so late, but it didn’t dawn on me until now: what if you’re both wrong? **Voyager** says TMP wouldn’t have really been the same; you say it might have been better; but imagine this: Shatner _doesn’t_ do TMP, and, well, it just plays out much the same and winds up getting about the same response. And then Shatner agrees to come back for **Wrath of Khan** , which plays out as it did here in the real world and gets the appropriate response – but holy _crap_, the view of Shatner will be legendary; contrarians will argue that he wouldn’t have helped TMP into something more energetic and dramatic, but they’ll of course be derided. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/25 "2016-05-02T03:34:54Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Wiki seems to indicate that Nimoy was in full costume on the bridge set after attending the press conference before filming started on August 7th of '78. > > (I mean, yes, it looks like he’d insisted on having script approval; and, yes, the script wasn’t finished when filming started; and, yes, I guess _technically_ that means he hadn’t committed to TMP; but if they in fact gave him script approval, then you could just as technically say he’d in fact committed before they started filming.) _ **Vulcans thrive on technicality** _ ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/26 "2016-05-02T03:59:34Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I think there was such a pent-up enthusiasm among the fans for more Star Trek that they could have moved Gavin Macleod from the Love Boat to the Enterprise, and it would have succeeded. Why not? After all, _Saturday Night Live_ turned the Enterprise into the Love Boat with Patrick Stewart as the captain. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/27 "2016-05-02T19:10:05Z")
I’d vote for\*\* Nicholas Meyer\*\*, director of _Wrath of Khan_. The first film, _Star Trek: The Motion Picture_, did do good box office for 1979, $80+ million, but it cost almost $50 million to make\*!\* When it was released it was the most expensive film ever made. Compare that to _Star Wars_ which only cost $9.5 million. Plus the critics were not kind _at all_ to ST:TMP and the Trekkies were at best heavily divided over it. And the blame for all of this rested squarely on Roddenberry’s shoulders. He was a control freak and not overly concerned about making the kind of film the studio felt the fans (and especially the general public) would want. And they were right. ST:TMP is a rare example of a film that was only successful thru the shear will (and semi-self-delusion) of an extremely devoted fan base. After its near disaster (i.e. a _very_ modest cost vs profit ratio) Roddenberry was kicked out of production. Nicholas Meyer, who was not a Trek fan at all, was brought in. He watched all 79 episodes and came up with the brilliant idea for WOK. _Star Trek II_ made nearly as much as ST:TMP, around $80 million, but it cost only $11 million to make. And critics and fans alike absolutely loved it. Had it tanked that would have been it. No more films, no _Next Generation_ etc., nothing. The franchise would have died then and there. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/28 "2016-05-02T20:01:42Z")
I don’t think any of them were strictly necessary. As much as I hate to say this, TNG might have been better off without Roddenberry’s involvement at all. I would have happily watched a series starring Jeffrey Hunter. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/29 "2016-05-03T07:46:02Z")
I do wonder how many of these ideas are thinking in more modern terms. We weren’t in the big reboot/sequel era yet. Leaving out Spock was something they were willing to do, but I don’t know about Kirk. ---
**Author:** ![Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enter_the_Flagon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/30 "2016-05-03T13:27:56Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > I would have happily watched a series starring Jeffrey Hunter. Me too - I thought Jeffrey Hunter was terrific, but he wasn’t even interested in filming a second pilot for TOS, let alone a recurring role - preferring instead to concentrate on working in feature films. And, of course, it becomes a moot point after he dies tragically in 1969. Still, your point holds up. Roddenberry loved Shatner’s portrayal of Kirk, but Shatner was far from the only charismatic actor on television. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/31 "2016-05-05T01:44:07Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Don’t get me wrong - Kirk was absolutely necessary for TWoK (the best ST movie evah!), but quite possibly a different greatest movie evah could have been made just as well without Kirk. _ **Star Trek II: Return of the Tholian Web** _ ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/32 "2016-05-05T02:52:53Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > I don’t think any of them were strictly necessary. As much as I hate to say this, TNG might have been better off without Roddenberry’s involvement at all. How involved was Roddenberry in TNG, though? AIUI, Roddenberry’s involvement was the concept and the characters, and Rick Berman was the main showrunner. Then Roddenberry died in 1991, so Berman ran the whole ball of wax, except for DS9, which was Ronald Moore’s baby. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/33 "2016-05-05T02:55:42Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > The premiere episode of a new series: Kirk is MIA (or “reported” KIA). A new captain beams aboard to take command of the _Enterprise_. While in mourning for Kirk (who could theoretically reappear at any time), the remaining crew members re-devote themselves to accomplishing their interstellar mission. Flashbacks suffice to keep Kirk’s memory alive. Eventually, the old crew and the new captain forge close a new team and carry on in Kirk’s absence. > > Sounds like a winner to me! 🆒 Wait… if Shatner’s not involved, how do you film the flashbacks? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/34 "2016-05-05T04:46:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wait… if Shatner’s not involved, how do you film the flashbacks? Uhh … use footage from _ **TOS** _? :dubious: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/35 "2016-05-05T23:03:14Z")
I think regardless of who might have died in the 70’s, it would have just killed the movies from happening, not all of Star Trek. Certainly there still would have been conventions, comics, novels, maybe another cartoon, but most of all, I think by the time of TNG there would have been another attempt at a show, even without the movies, just because of things like first run syndication making it time where making a risk like Trek with a whole new cast had enough upside with minimized downside to make it worth taking . ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/36 "2016-05-06T21:32:46Z")
For those keeping score, even though it isn’t considered canon, the (rather good) animated episode _The Slaver Weapon_ is the only bit of Trek media set in TOS time in which William Shatner does not appear. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/37 "2016-05-06T23:19:03Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > For those keeping score, even though it isn’t considered canon, the (rather good) animated episode _The Slaver Weapon_ is the only bit of Trek media set in TOS time in which William Shatner does not appear. Kirk also does not appear in The Cage, which is considered canon. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/38 "2016-05-07T07:20:47Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Kirk also does not appear in The Cage, which is considered canon. True, but from a showbiz point of view _The Cage_ was never actually released as a standalone episode, only as the alien recording in the two-part episode _The Menagerie_… ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/39 "2016-05-07T08:56:39Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > I’d vote for\*\* Nicholas Meyer\*\*, director of _Wrath of Khan_. The first film, _Star Trek: The Motion Picture_, did do good box office for 1979, $80+ million, but it cost almost $50 million to make\*!\* When it was released it was the most expensive film ever made. Compare that to _Star Wars_ which only cost $9.5 million. Plus the critics were not kind _at all_ to ST:TMP and the Trekkies were at best heavily divided over it. > > And the blame for all of this rested squarely on Roddenberry’s shoulders. Roddenberry would certainly bear some responsibility, but, to be fair, it wasn’t him who cancelled pre-production on the _Star Trek_ movie he was working on in favour of _Phase II_, intended to be the cornerstone of the new Paramount network. Nor did he make the decision to continue production on the series – commissioning scripts, building sets, signing actors to pay-or-play contracts – when it was already clear that the network would never fly and the TV series wouldn’t happen. And Roddenberry wasn’t the one who rolled all those costs into the STTMP budget. By all accounts, Roddenberry was a difficult man to work with, and I’m sure it suited a few people within Paramount to let him take the rap, but he didn’t direct the movie, or edit it, and he didn’t set the budget. I can’t believe I’m defending Gene Roddenberry. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946/40 "2016-05-09T05:02:48Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > True, but from a showbiz point of view _The Cage_ was never actually released as a standalone episode, only as the alien recording in the two-part episode _The Menagerie_… It was released on video, IIRC, back in the late '80s. Whether it’s actually been aired, I can’t say for sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-fill-in-the-blank-dies-in-the-70s-so-does-star-trek/745946.md?page=3)