# \[If\] Ginsburg dies, Trump nominates far-righter, what's the opposition strategy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 29, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159 "2017-06-29T19:54:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/41 "2017-06-30T11:38:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Presumably the ones who voted against Dred Scott, the majority in Plessy v Ferguson, the dissent in Boynton v Virginia, and others on the wrong (IMO) side of Civil Rights cases. Did I find some justices who were too conservative for you, **HurricaneDitka**? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/42 "2017-06-30T12:17:39Z")
There’s really nothing Democrats can do except to start winning some elections, and I’m resigning (mentally bracing) myself for the prospect that Democrats might end up losing rigged elections for the next decade, no matter how bad the optics get for Republicans. If there’s a strategy, it’s to start rebuilding the party from the bottom up. I’ve recently thought that perhaps the Democrats ought to find a few places in the Heartland where they might be able to use a left-leaning majority to work with right moderates and centrists to radically innovate politics and then use it as an example for others to follow. For instance, maybe ditch the idea of $15 minimum wages, which is really the radical left’s way of trying to punch the wealthy class in the face, and instead experiment with a combination of economic strategies that would be consistent with progressive values while not being abhorrent to the right either. But this whole notion that Democrats are going to come back to power and gain momentum in the courts by impeaching Trump or just making him look bad is just more of Democrats being out of touch with reality. Attempts at obstruction would only serve to polarize, which is really what Trump and the GOP extremists want. They actually want polarization. They want controversy. It gets their names out there on TV or in Google, and it inspires the base. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/43 "2017-06-30T12:25:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If Ginsburg dies before January 2021 and the GOP still holds a Senate majority, and Trump nominates a far-right justice as her replacement, I don’t see any way the Democrats can stop the confirmation from proceeding except to persuade a sufficient number of Republican senators to defect. > > The nuclear option has already been invoked, and while protesters could physically occupy the Capitol building to prevent a confirmation vote, that couldn’t go on forever. If the Democrats target specifically the Republican senators from blue or tossup states, and especially those with elections coming up in 2018 or 2020, might that suffice to get them to defect? It will be Trump’s court for decades if Ginsburg dies or steps down. Justice Kennedy, the most moderate of the group is going to step down within a year. He’s just waiting for the right time to do it, which could be early 2018. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/44 "2017-06-30T12:31:04Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I decided to look up the older justices’ life expectancy, from the Social Security actuarial info. > > Justice – age – remaining life expectancy > Kennedy – 80 – 8 > Ginsberg – 84 – 7 > Breyer – 78 – 9 > > Given that all the justices have access to top-notch medical care, and (by definition,) they have at least reasonably good genes, since they’ve survived this long in good health; it is theoretically possible that Trump might get only the one appointment. Oh, I think Trump will at least get TWO total appointments before 2020. And if he wins re-election, he might get as many a FOUR Supreme Court people in there. Ginsberg has had some major health issues and people who have had major illness before tend to age in dog years in their mid-80’s. The ones who made it to their mid 80’s with no major surgeries or hospitalizations are the ones that tend to live a bit longer. But the real story is this. 2018 looks like a giant red wave in the Senate. This is the group that confirms supreme court nominations. Dem’s will lose seats in the 2018 mid term elections…the math and geography say so. Dem’s must defend more seats and have some red state seats to defend. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/45 "2017-06-30T12:35:54Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > It will be Trump’s court for decades if Ginsburg dies or steps down. > > Justice Kennedy, the most moderate of the group is going to step down within a year. He’s just waiting for the right time to do it, which could be early 2018. It’s already Trump’s (GOP’s) court for decades. That was assured on election night. As Obama said afterward, elections have consequences. We’ll be feeling them for a long time to come. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/46 "2017-06-30T12:42:54Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Oh, I think Trump will at least get TWO total appointments before 2020. And if he wins re-election, he might get as many a FOUR Supreme Court people in there. > > Ginsberg has had some major health issues and people who have had major illness before tend to age in dog years in their mid-80’s. > > The ones who made it to their mid 80’s with no major surgeries or hospitalizations are the ones that tend to live a bit longer. > > But the real story is this. 2018 looks like a giant red wave in the Senate. This is the group that confirms supreme court nominations. > > Dem’s will lose seats in the 2018 mid term elections…the math and geography say so. Dem’s must defend more seats and have some red state seats to defend. I think opposition to Trump will drive Democrats out to vote. The states where Dems are most vulnerable are swing states, and Trump’s popularity has declined in these areas while the anti-Trump sentiments have ticked up. I would agree, however, that talk of a blue wave, as some armchair pundits have suggested, is also not likely to happen. As you correctly pointed out, Dems are the ones defending their territory this time. If any chamber is up for grabs it won’t be the Senate. The House just might be in play, but that’s hardly a given at this point. I’d be satisfied with Dems picking up enough seats to be able to occasionally block Republicans in the House. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/47 "2017-06-30T12:47:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > As Obama said afterward, elections have consequences. Not always, right, Mitch? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/48 "2017-06-30T12:55:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Can I ask a favor? > > I think Justice Ginsburg is smart and honest and has done her level best to leave the judiciary, and the country, better than she found it. I have profound disagreement with her on the proper role of the judiciary, but I dislike spinning scenarios that call for her death. Can’t she hypothetically retire, which would serve the speculative discussion just as well, but avoid the unseemly aspect of accomplishing the seating of the next hypothetical justice as the result of a death? I like to hold a higher opinion of Ginsburg than that she would retire under the Trump administration. As for the answer to the OP: are we only counting technically legal options? Fuck-all. Nothing they can do. Illegal options present themselves, but they’re all pretty terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/49 "2017-06-30T13:21:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Flyer** : > > Given that all the justices have access to top-notch medical care, and (by definition,) they have at least reasonably good genes, since they’ve survived this long in good health; it is theoretically possible that Trump might get only the one appointment. While it’s true that they have top-notch medical care, you can’t count their good genes in their favor. All of the other people the actuarial tables are based on also had good enough genes to live that long. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/50 "2017-06-30T14:36:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Just uphold everything when the Republicans are in power and overturn everything when the Democrats are in power. The Supreme Court will function as a third chamber of Congress. Which you apparently feel was the founders’ original intent. That’s not at all how I feel. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Did I find some justices who were too conservative for you, **HurricaneDitka**? I haven’t had a chance to look into it in much depth yet. At a cursory glance, it would appear that I disagree with those particular rulings, but then there are things the current conservative bloc on the Court supports that I disagree with, so I can’t really speak to those previous justice’s judicial philosophy without doing additional research. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/51 "2017-06-30T14:48:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s not at all how I feel. > > I haven’t had a chance to look into it in much depth yet. At a cursory glance, it would appear that I disagree with those particular rulings, but then there are things the current conservative bloc on the Court supports that I disagree with, so I can’t really speak to those previous justice’s judicial philosophy without doing additional research. So, still no current conservatives you think would be too far to the right for the SC? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/52 "2017-06-30T15:05:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So, still no current conservatives you think would be too far to the right for the SC? The question is not as simple as you seem to imply: _Flag burning is protected speech._ Is that a “left” position or a “right” position? Do you, by any chance, mean is there someone out there who would push for a far-right wing political agenda, ignoring any reference to what could be called a judicial philosophy in order to do so? David Duke, for instance? Or do you mean any current justices in the lower courts who would be considered “conservative” who might be too far right for that poster? Judge Roy Moore (the former judge), for instance? I think the way you have worded the question is too open ended to answer properly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/53 "2017-06-30T15:20:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The question is not as simple as you seem to imply: > > _Flag burning is protected speech._ > > Is that a “left” position or a “right” position? Do you, by any chance, mean is there someone out there who would push for a far-right wing political agenda, ignoring any reference to what could be called a judicial philosophy in order to do so? David Duke, for instance? Or do you mean any current justices in the lower courts who would be considered “conservative” who might be too far right for that poster? Judge Roy Moore (the former judge), for instance? > > I think the way you have worded the question is too open ended to answer properly. When asked of someone who would have no trouble with 9 identical judges that wouldn’t bother to ask questions and would have no need to spend time debating, finding out who wouldn’t be suitable for this position because their positions are generally too far to the right as that person defines the term is an easy enough question to answer…unless of course the actual answer is embarrassing because there is _no_ current candidate that person finds too far right for the job. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/54 "2017-06-30T16:21:54Z")
With no fillibuster, the best they can do is to launch nation wide protests and pack town halls, all of which will be entirely ignored by the Republicans in congress. So the answer is kiss good bye to all of the social progress made in the last 55 years, and accept the new order in which corporations rule an America of by and for white, male, Christians. On the good side it might serve as a reminder to those on the far left, that the two parties really aren’t the same and staying home on election day because the Democratic candidate doesn’t meet your exact specifications is not helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/55 "2017-06-30T16:28:34Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > With no fillibuster, the best they can do is to launch nation wide protests and pack town halls, all of which will be entirely ignored by the Republicans in congress. > > So the answer is kiss good bye to all of the social progress made in the last 55 years, and accept the new order in which corporations rule an America of by and for white, male, Christians. On the good side it might serve as a reminder to those on the far left, that the two parties really aren’t the same and staying home on election day because the Democratic candidate doesn’t meet your exact specifications is not helpful. Who knows, maybe it could serve as a reminder to those on the left that depending on nine unelected people to promote “social progress” instead of doing it the hard way through the legislative process is not that great a method. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/56 "2017-06-30T16:33:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Best option- use the possibility of impending deaths/retirements as election issues and retake the Senate. \*\*Should vacancies occur, leave them open until a Democrat takes office. \*\*We now have a precedent that vacancies may be filled only when the Senate and White House are controlled by the same party. But how? GOP only needs 50+Pence. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/57 "2017-06-30T16:48:53Z")
Can a moderator please add “If” to my thread title? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/58 "2017-06-30T16:54:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But how? GOP only needs 50+Pence. How much is that in American money? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/59 "2017-06-30T17:04:15Z")
Wait, **HurricaneDitka** , let me get this straight: You haven’t looked into Dredd Scott or Plessy v. Ferguson in much depth, and are only just now giving them a cursory glance? And yet you consider yourself qualified to make any statement at all about American politics? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159/60 "2017-06-30T17:49:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When asked of someone who would have no trouble with 9 identical judges that wouldn’t bother to ask questions and would have no need to spend time debating, finding out who wouldn’t be suitable for this position because their positions are generally too far to the right as that person defines the term is an easy enough question to answer…unless of course the actual answer is embarrassing because there is _no_ current candidate that person finds too far right for the job. If this is so simple, can you answer my question about flag burning? Is that a “right” issue or a “left” issue. Check only one box. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-ginsburg-dies-trump-nominates-far-righter-whats-the-opposition-strategy/790159.md?page=4)