# If god were a human what could the DA charge him with? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954 "2002-05-08T19:49:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/1 "2002-05-08T19:49:00Z")
If the god of the bible suddenly became mortal (like Q in that one episode of STTNG), what crimes could we charge him with using the bible as definitive evidence of his actions? Let’s just ignore “ex post facto” issues. Basically, if an entity bound by the penal code of the United States does what is attributed to god in the bible what would he be guily of? Obviously murder - he’ll get quite a few life sentences for the little flood thing. The death penalty if he killed any policemen. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/2 "2002-05-08T19:57:02Z")
I don’t think we could charge him with anything. I don’t think the laws of the United States were designed to punish people who committed crimes before the country was founded (and any that might probably dealt specifically with Revolutionary War crimes). And then there’s the issue of proving that the Bible is an accurate portrayal of what God actually did. Good luck on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/3 "2002-05-08T20:12:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Basically, if an entity bound by the penal code of the United States does what is attributed to god (sic) in the bible (sic) what would he be guily (sic) of? […biting lip and quietly chanting Jarbaby’s advice…] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/4 "2002-05-08T20:26:07Z")
dj, dude, you have got to chill. I’m an atheist but you clearly have issues with God, one whom you seem to not believe in. Being extremely angry at other people is counterproductive and unhealthy. Being angry at beings you don’t think exist is also counterfactual and worrisome. As for the OP I think **ultrafilter** said all that can be rationally said about it. Maybe if you made the OP something more like “Does the God derived from a literal interpration of the Bible measure up to ethical standerds” some good debating could occur. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/5 "2002-05-08T20:31:40Z")
I suppose you have murder (many instances of that), torture (Job), destruction of public and private property (Great Flood, Sodom & Gomorah), and theft (several times that God commanded his followers to take something from someone else, the town of Jericho for example). I’m sure I could come up with more with more time. However, why do you ask this? ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/6 "2002-05-08T20:48:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think we could charge him with anything. I don’t think the laws of the United States were designed to punish people who committed crimes before the country was founded (and any that might probably dealt specifically with Revolutionary War crimes). That falls into the category of “Ex Post Facto” which are not to be considered for the purpose of this thought exercise. > [@](#): > > dj, dude, you have got to chill. I’m an atheist but you clearly have issues with God, one whom you seem to not believe in. Being extremely angry at other people is counterproductive and unhealthy. Being angry at beings you don’t think exist is also counterfactual and worrisome. I’m not angry at anyone. I like to debate and I find theology interesting. I also find certain things like murder, racism and genocide repulsive. These things will get passionate responses from me when defended. I certainly cannot be said to be angry at a god who does not exist. More like I am frustrated by people who try to justify such an entity were it to exist. When speaking to religious folks I often hear the argument that we can’t judge god by human standards. I want to see what would happen if we could. How does the god of the bible’s moral code stack up to our legal code? I think he would be in a world of trouble. My goal is to show that the god of that particular mythology is pretty rotten by the standards we judge each other by. I am of the opinion that morals are morals. If you have to bend what your morals are to defend your faith you do yourself a disservice as a human being IMO. **Lib** , capitalization rules (hell grammar rules in general) are sugestive and not definitive. Spoken communication came before written language. Rules were made after the fact. One can use language however one sees fit. And I made a typo. Big deal. The meaning is what is important. Oh, and what was **Jarbaby’s** advice? I missed it. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/7 "2002-05-08T20:55:05Z")
Absolutely nothing, DJ. You see, to convict someone of a crime, you must have direct or valid, unrefuted circumstantial evidence of the commission of a criminal act. And no DA is going to charge someone of a crime he is extremely dubious about getting a conviction for. If all this happened and I were God’s defense attorney (hey, if He becomes mortal, He can certainly admit me to the bar first!), I’d simply take the depositions of **DavidB** , **Czarcasm** , and numerous others around here as to the unreliability of the Bible, and pray the court for summary dismissal on the grounds that there is no evidence linking my Client to the charges. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/8 "2002-05-08T21:00:07Z")
Assume we have a signed bible as a written confession. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/9 "2002-05-08T21:14:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Lib, capitalization rules (hell grammar rules in general) are sugestive and not definitive. Spoken communication came before written language. Rules were made after the fact. One can use language however one sees fit. And I made a typo. Big deal. The meaning is what is important. Nonsense. If you felt that way, you would not have capitalized my name. > [@](#): > > Oh, and what was Jarbaby’s advice? I missed it. That I wait a reasonable amount of time before posting a Pit parody of a moronic or overbearing Great Debates thread. > [@](#): > > Assume we have a signed bible as a written confession. According to that document, when He was here, He was charged with blasphemy, sedition, and insurrection. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/10 "2002-05-08T21:24:55Z")
**dalovindj** your OP comes off in the wrong way IMO. I understand the debate you want and the issues that motivate it. I just don’t think you posted it in the clearest way or in the way that best reflective of your character (as I take your word for it that you are not angry at the Judeo-Christian God). Since the Bible is not considered by many to be entirely literal I doubt charges would be pressed. More over since the United States does not officially recognize the Bible as having a bearing on law or being a document of actual fact God would most likely not be charged at all. If God admitted to doing all the things in the Bible and the courts decided to press charges there would be one hell of a trial. Still if such a God were suddenly stripped of his powers and made mortal I think there would be a great number of metaphysical issues at stake that would be just as important, if not more so, than the illegal behavoir he engaged in as the sole divinity in reality. As for justifying one’s God’s apparently amoral/illegal actions I’ll leave that to someone who believes in a God who has some explaining to do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/11 "2002-05-08T21:27:21Z")
_sigh_ My third sentence should read “…or in the way that best reflects your…” I need to learn to preview so my damn sentence blends can be weeded out. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/12 "2002-05-08T21:33:37Z")
I think **Libertarian** gave the entirely appropriate answer to your response to my objection, DJ. The proper crime is blasphemy against people’s ideas of who He ought to be; it’s a capital crime, punishable by crucifixion. And He’s already served the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/13 "2002-05-08T21:34:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Nonsense. If you felt that way, you would not have capitalized my name. This is poor reasoning. I follow some rules that have been suggested and not others - as I said one uses language as one sees fit. Dig? Nothing nonsensical here. In the end I am able to communicate exactly what I mean. That is all that is important to me. Sometimes I use the word “cause” instead of “because”. Same shit. > [@](#): > > That I wait a reasonable amount of time before posting a Pit parody of a moronic or overbearing Great Debates thread. How _noble_ of you to restrain yourself. I disagree that judging supposed gods by our standards is moronic. It seems like it makes perfect sense to evaluate an entity that you worship. I want an application of our nations legal morality to that of the apparent morality of the god so many have asked me to worship. > [@](#): > > According to that document, when He was here, He was charged with blasphemy, sedition, and insurrection I’m looking for an application of his actions to our _current_ laws. I’m thinking he might have some RICO violations to deal with as well. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![WillGolfForFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/82dd89/32.png) [@WillGolfForFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillGolfForFood)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/14 "2002-05-08T21:38:21Z")
The EPA would be all **over** him for not filing appropriate Environmental Impact statements… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/15 "2002-05-08T21:39:07Z")
Well, it’s been done. In Eastern Europe, some rabbis formed a Beit Din, charging G-d with breach of contract, because of the whole dispora/centuries of persecution. They found Him guilty, but didn’t pass sentence for jurisdictional reasons. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/16 "2002-05-08T21:50:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\*I’m looking for an application of his actions to our _current_ laws. > \*\* Well, you can do that with almost anyone who existed in the past. Some of the founding fathers owned slaves in violation of the 13th ammendment. Most of the famous kings of the past violated the Geneva convention regarding prisoners of war, etc. Heck, Columbus, Cortes, etc. violated the Monroe Doctrine. Also, are you talking about United States law? After all, God is not only in the U.S. Should He also be tried in Iraqi courts for violations of Iraqi law? Why are you using U.S. law (I’m assuming you are) as the basis for trying someone whose crimes (as per your definition) were not committed in U.S. territory? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/17 "2002-05-08T21:56:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*Well, it’s been done. In Eastern Europe, some rabbis formed a Beit Din, charging G-d with breach of contract, because of the whole dispora/centuries of persecution. They found Him guilty, but didn’t pass sentence for jurisdictional reasons. \*\* I wonder if this story is apocryphal. I’ve heard a similar story about the Holocaust. The court found Him guilty and then, after the proceedings, announced that it was time for _mincha_ (afternoon prayers). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/18 "2002-05-08T21:57:32Z")
> [@](#): > > I follow some rules that have been suggested and not others - as I said one uses language as one sees fit. You follow some rules sometimes, for example the rules that proper names and names of books are to be capitalized. You choose to capitalize Jarbaby and Lib, but you do not choose to capitalize God. I would wager that you choose to capitalize _Illiad_, but you refuse to capitalize _Bible_. It would appear that, for whatever reason, you use the language to ridicule and bully people of faith. > [@](#): > > I want an application of our nations legal morality to that of the apparent morality of the god so many have asked me to worship. You would use the US justice system as a standard by which to judge someone’s morality? > [@](#): > > I’m looking for an application of his actions to our current laws. That’s an interesting exercise, particularly given that ultimately, you will judge your own morality by His eternal law. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/19 "2002-05-08T22:08:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, it’s been done. In Eastern Europe, some rabbis formed a Beit Din, charging G-d with breach of contract, because of the whole dispora/centuries of persecution. They found Him guilty, but didn’t pass sentence for jurisdictional reasons. Is that true? Pretty funny joke if not. If it is I’d love to read about it. Gottalink? (hey Lib, you can throw another sic in there if it makes you feel better - I just made three words into one new word!) > [@](#): > > Well, you can do that with almost anyone who existed in the past. This is true and a good point. I also consider it wise to evaluate our “heros”. Each persons charachter, however, should warant their own thread for moral evaluation. > [@](#): > > Also, are you talking about United States law? After all, God is not only in the U.S. Should He also be tried in Iraqi courts for violations of Iraqi law? Why are you using U.S. law (I’m assuming you are) as the basis for trying someone whose crimes (as per your definition) were not committed in U.S. territory? Sounds good! I’d love to hear how he stands up to the laws of the rest of the world. Not to say that there aren’t places in the world where laws aren’t barbaric (Taliban controlled Afghanistan for example - when it existed as such). I chose the US because their legal code is the one I know the best and one I tend to be mostly in agreement with. Some major exceptions, naturally. But this isn’t a thread for talking about what US laws need to change. By assuming the US a clearer direction for the thread to go in is provided. If those knowledgeable in global law would like to throw in some violations he’d be charged with in other countries I’d love to hear hit. Hell, what UN charters would he have violated? DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2002, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954/20 "2002-05-08T22:16:36Z")
I typically capitalize god when it is at the beginning of a sentence. Bible and god can both be generic terms. One can have many different bibles or many different gods. I choose not to consider them proper names because that would seem to favor one religion over another. It is not meant to mock anyone and it certainly isn’t bullying. It shouldn’t be taken as such. DaLovin’ Dj [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-god-were-a-human-what-could-the-da-charge-him-with/107954.md?page=2)