# If gunpowder wasn't explosive, what would be the next logical choice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 19, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265 "2010-07-19T20:11:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/1 "2010-07-19T20:11:14Z")
If gunpowder didn’t react in the way it does, what would we be using in bullets and the like? I know there’s plenty of other explosives for generally blowing things up but what else would work in firearms (both older blunderbuss/musket types and evolving into modern bullets)? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/2 "2010-07-19T20:17:51Z")
We actually don’t use gunpowder for firearms anymore. The old style gunpowder is now renamed “black powder”, and only replicas and antiques use it. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/3 "2010-07-19T20:25:09Z")
Do you mean modern gunpowder ([nitrocellulose](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose)) or old black powder? Because if one didn’t work, the other would have been useful. If you exclude both, then I assume an ammonium nitrate propellant, or another potassium nitrate blend if that’s allowed, would have been acceptable. If you’re going to exclude all nitrate chemistry, then firearms would have had to wait for perchlorate chemistry, which can also produce deflagrating “explosives.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/4 "2010-07-19T20:38:50Z")
Interesting. I’ll admit that I was unaware that we no longer used “real” gunpowder. I suppose I was just curious where the next technological leap in weapons would have been if good old fashioned gunpowder didn’t exist but I’m guessing then from the answers it would have been some other compound in the same family. I don’t know the chemistry enough to set good standards for what should count or not. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/5 "2010-07-19T21:08:03Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Do you mean modern gunpowder ([nitrocellulose](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose)) or old black powder? Because if one didn’t work, the other would have been useful. If you exclude both, then I assume an ammonium nitrate propellant, or another potassium nitrate blend if that’s allowed, would have been acceptable. Some mixture of sugar and potassium chlorate would probably suffice for blunderbuss as well. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/6 "2010-07-19T21:29:55Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Some mixture of sugar and potassium chlorate would probably suffice for blunderbuss as well. Or Sodium Chlorate. Me and my best mate made a lot of things go very boom in my mis-spent youth using that stuff - could have killed or badly injured ourselves on a couple of occasions, but for dumb luck. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/7 "2010-07-20T00:06:45Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Or Sodium Chlorate. Me and my best mate made a lot of things go very boom in my mis-spent youth using that stuff - could have killed or badly injured ourselves on a couple of occasions, but for dumb luck. Speak to me, brother! Why are so many of us still alive? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/8 "2010-07-20T00:08:42Z")
Jeweler’s rouge. [I wonder how many people will get the reference :D] ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/9 "2010-07-20T00:40:45Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Jeweler’s rouge. Not 'round here, they won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/10 "2010-07-20T00:44:02Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Speak to me, brother! Why are so many of us still alive? Most of the dead ones don’t post here. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/11 "2010-07-20T01:04:31Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Jeweler’s rouge. I have a Shadow of a doubt that won’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/12 "2010-07-20T01:04:48Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Most of the dead ones don’t post here. Check the recent rule change about zombie threads. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/13 "2010-07-20T03:31:14Z")
Compressed air? Granted not as powerful but than again if we had no explosive powder to use for guns we would not know the difference anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/14 "2010-07-20T04:44:50Z")
> [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > Compressed air? > > Granted not as powerful but than again if we had no explosive powder to use for guns we would not know the difference anyways. Air-rifles were developed in the 18th century and were surprisingly effective- Lewis & Clarke had one. Personally, I suspect the next quasi-logical choice (for the era) for a firearm propellant would be petrol. I doubt it would work especially well in small-arms, but you could manufacture a mortar or smallish cannon with that as the propellant, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/15 "2010-07-20T11:21:57Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Speak to me, brother! Why are so many of us still alive? Because some of us smarter ones let the other guys do it while we watched. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/16 "2010-07-20T13:55:04Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Air-rifles were developed in the 18th century and were surprisingly effective- Lewis & Clarke had one. > > Personally, I suspect the next quasi-logical choice (for the era) for a firearm propellant would be petrol. I doubt it would work especially well in small-arms, but you could manufacture a mortar or smallish cannon with that as the propellant, I’d say. And if we’re talking something larger than small arms, say, on a wheeled gun carriage, steam becomes an option, if no internal combustion chemicals worked. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/17 "2010-07-20T14:03:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Air-rifles were developed in the 18th century and were surprisingly effective- Lewis & Clarke had one. And it almost got Sherlock Holmes! ---
**Author:** ![dmatsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3be4f8/32.png) [@dmatsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dmatsch)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/18 "2010-07-20T15:04:01Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Some mixture of sugar and potassium chlorate would probably suffice for blunderbuss as well. In my misspent youth, I obtained a book called “Improvised Munitions” – an old army manual. KClO3 and a few other ingredients made for a fine plastic explosive filler. I made myself a little “device” and put in in a hollow of a rather large tree next to our aluminum lawn equipment shed. “Little Boy” made a nice boom that shook the tree a surprising amount from top to bottom as I jumped in glee like Adam does when cement trucks disappear. The tree, all of the sudden, started to lean like the tower at Pisa. More and more, until finally with a loud crack, it fell on the shed, crushing it and all of the equipment inside. I was grounded for almost a year and a half while I substituted for the lawn equipment with my bare hands. I have since learned the error of my ways and have discontinued the search for small amounts of antimatter. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-gunpowder-wasnt-explosive-what-would-be-the-next-logical-choice/547265/19 "2010-07-20T16:02:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I have a Shadow of a doubt that won’t work. I can trump that.