# If Hell does exist will I be doomed there for eternity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163 "2003-09-17T16:26:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/21 "2003-09-17T22:12:41Z")
Extremism in favor of “a sound argument” is also flawed. All “sound” arguments must be based on premises, and if the premises are false, then the conclusions will be false–if the argument is sound! It is possible, at any given moment, to pick a time in our past wherein someone’s true experience (or at least experience that we would consider true today) would be defeatable by a “sound argument”, since the paradigm of that day essentially denied both the truth and any possibility of proof of the experience _a priori_ Consider the history of “racial science”, for example. During parts of our history, the “sound arguments” were, by our standards, in direct contradiction against many direct experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/22 "2003-09-17T22:36:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > **Extremism in favor of “a sound argument” is also flawed.** True. But it seems that a sound argument tends to have a higher probability of being correct in most things, since it tempers experience with reasoning. More importantly, if someone who bases their beliefs on “sound arguments” has reached an incorrect conclusion (because of faulty premises), then future information that corrects those premises will lead to the person reaching a “better” conclusion. Someone who bases their beliefs solely on what they have experienced will keep believing something that is false no matter what new information (short of a conflicting experience) that they are presented with. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/23 "2003-09-17T23:06:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*What catholic church did you go to? This is most definitely not what I;'ve heard in my catechism. \*\* It’s not Catholic teaching. That’s a Protestant belief. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/24 "2003-09-17T23:12:25Z")
BREAKING NEWS: There is not a shred of evidence that Hell exists. And if it does, there is not a shred of evidence regarding what beliefs or behavior will land you there. I don’t know, and neither do you. ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/25 "2003-09-17T23:53:24Z")
Just find Benny, he will lead you out of hell. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/26 "2003-09-18T01:08:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Christians believed in God’s existence before their conversion. However, when they obeyed the Word of God, turned from their sins, and embraced Jesus Christ, they stopped merely believing. The moment they reached out and touched the heater bar of God’s mercy, they moved out of belief into the realm of experience. What differentiates this “experience” from the experience of those who have seen Krishna work in their lives, or who know with absolute certainty that there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet, or who have awakened from the illusion of the ego to the true realization of Nirvana? How can you prove that your experience is any more valid than the thousands of other experiences with completely different gods? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/27 "2003-09-18T03:37:54Z")
Probably not, you seem like a nice person. But a bit of a snob about prostitution. Do you really belive that some-one who ‘sins’ (different argument) just for a bit of fun is better than a hard-working working girl, trying to earn a living? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/28 "2003-09-18T09:23:48Z")
That’s the second time I’ve seen that heater bar parable from **Svt4Him** , and it’s as unconvincing as it was the last time. For the reasons **Diogenes** gives - why might the child not instead be burnt by the fire of Buddhist enlightenment, or indeed _dis_belief? It’s also presented with the usual self-referential Bible quoting that ain’t going to convince anyone who doesn’t already believe the bible is the inerrant word of God (I guess this might work on other Christians if you’re trying to move them towards your branch of Christianity), but to be honest, I could sling bits of the Bhagavad Gita at you to justify believe in Hindusim. It’s also unconvincing for the major fact that it’s such a weak analogy. But finally, likening people who disagree with your religion to ‘corpses’ is not going to win you any friends. If I were to liken Christians to deluded clowns walking around with red noses and silly wigs until they embrace atheism - and atheism helps them out of their comedy car and takes off their oversized footwear for them - I’d be jumped on with howls of protest from all sides. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/29 "2003-09-18T09:54:55Z")
Back to the OP; the question is unanswerable unless you first frame it by specifying _whose opinion_ you would like on the matter. Otherwise, it’s a bit like asking “If I bought a sandwich, what would be the filling?” ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/30 "2003-09-18T15:03:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by panache45 \* > \*\*BREAKING NEWS: > > There is not a shred of evidence that Hell exists. And if it does, there is not a shred of evidence regarding what beliefs or behavior will land you there. > > I don’t know, and neither do you. \*\* But there is!!! Remember? They have a tape recording of it! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/31 "2003-09-18T15:07:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe Random \* > **More importantly, if someone who bases their beliefs on “sound arguments” has reached an incorrect conclusion (because of faulty premises), then future information that corrects those premises will lead to the person reaching a “better” conclusion.** Unless said person dismisses this “information” because it is a mere “experience”. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/32 "2003-09-18T15:12:57Z")
My own Church treats this question thus: We cannot exclude the possibility that someone will be saved outside the Church. However, Orthdoxy offers most people a better chance than they would have on their own or with another group. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/33 "2003-09-18T18:37:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > **I’d say that a just and forgiving God would see the OP as the required act of contrition. It doesn’t take a lot.** IANAC but does he need to regret any of those one-night stands and drug taking? I don’t think it’s clear from his post that he did. (Obviously God would know if does, but we wouldn’t.) ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/34 "2003-09-18T18:49:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*So why bother going to the church and confessing and all that? Nor does there seem to be any need for the Last Rites either, if He’s that nice! \*\* How about the possibility that all of the other conditions, such as Last Rites, exist only for the preservation of organized religion? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LifeInHIM86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a4c791/32.png) [@LifeInHIM86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeInHIM86)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/35 "2003-09-18T21:36:31Z")
**NightUK** , as it’s been said before on here, we don’t really know by whose standard you’re asking us to measure. I will give you what I live by. Also, as **jjiimm** said, there is way too much > [@](#): > > self-referential Bible quoting that ain’t going to convince anyone who doesn’t already believe the bible is the inerrant word of God in the world. Judging from [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=211858), you don’t accept the Bible that way. Nevertheless, you asked for our beliefs on the topic, so I’ll tell you what I’ve inferred from Biblical text - not because I believe it will make you believe anything you don’t now, but because you or someone else might find it interesting. Hopefully I can bring in a perspective a bit less biased toward any denomination. I think I’m going to focus more on the question “who is going to heaven?” rather than the question “are you, specifically, going to hell?”, as definining hell is a whole nother issue that I’m not fully prepared to deal with at the moment. Hope that’s alright with you. Perhaps the best place for me to begin is Mark 16. Verse 16 (NIV) says > [@](#): > > Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Now might be a good time for me to point out that the greek word from which we derive “baptize” and “baptism” and the like, _baptizo_, if I’m remembering correctly, means “to immerse”. This verse basically excludes anyone who is not immersed and/or does not believe. Baptism apart from a knowledge of what one is doing, and why, and a desire to follow Christ, does no good. Belief spreads much more than to “I believe,” as well. In the book of James, chapter 2, James says > [@](#): > > _some parts I picked out between verses 14 and 26_ > What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?..Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do…[Abraham’s] faith was made complete by what he did…As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. Faith is not just a statement of “I believe” but a way of living that shows that you believe. It means avoiding sin, but fessing up when you do sin, and fleeing from doing it again the next time. In Matthew’s account of Mark chapter 16, Jesus says > [@](#): > > _Matthew 28:19-20_ > Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. Notice the “teaching them to obey everything.” Christianity is not a one night, one week, one month, or one year commitment - it is a commitment to an entire life of trying to be Christ-like. A good Bible example of a conversion is in the book of Acts. I won’t quote the entire thing here, but I’m particularly looking at 2:14-47. In this passage, Peter preaches to people, and they are convicted that there must be some course of action appropriate to what they’ve heard. When they ask Peter, he tells them to “repent and be baptized.” (v. 38). In v. 41, those who accepted what Peter preached were baptized, and 42-48 tells us that they continued in a changed lifestyle of selflessness, fellowship, and praise. How does that translate to modern conversion? Well, the steps I see taking place in this account and in many others (some others that are very good to look at as an intro are Acts 8:26-40, 16:29-34, 22:16) are these. [list=1] [li]First, the people heard the message.[/li][li]Then, they indicated their belief in it,[/li][li]then confessed - not every sin, but that they were sinners, and that Jesus is Lord.[/li][li]Next, they repented (literally: turned from) their old sins,[/li][li]were baptized into Christ,[/li][li]and continued as new people (2 Corinthians 5:17).[/li][/list=1] This is by no means an exhaustive list of relevant scriptures, but I’d say it’s a pretty good start as to who the Bible says is a Christian/going to heaven. I’m guessing I opened another can of worms by bringing up the question of the necessity of baptism for salvation. I’m not intending to hijack here, but I won’t be at all surprised if this heads onto a tangent. Hope I said that in a way that makes sense. I’m happy to clarify or expand anything. [size=1]here’s hoping that I done good with my first GD post![/size=1] ---
**Author:** ![RoundGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90ced4/32.png) [@RoundGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoundGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/36 "2003-09-19T02:41:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m guessing I opened another can of worms by bringing up the question of the necessity of baptism for salvation. Well, on a religion board it probably would have – but here among the heathens, it merely raises an eyebrow or two. More important to us is the question of why we should believe that salvation is necessary at all. > [@](#): > > here’s hoping that I done good with my first GD post! Very respectable, considering the position from which you start. Unfortunately, if history is any indication, your username hints of a future road that will be a bit…well…bumpy. ---
**Author:** ![LifeInHIM86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a4c791/32.png) [@LifeInHIM86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeInHIM86)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/37 "2003-09-19T04:20:33Z")
**Roundguy** , I assumed, from some things said earlier in the thread, that at least some of the posters adhered the the religions/denominations they spoke of. Now I’m seeing how I wasn’t necessarily right about that - sorry if my info was irrelevant. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, if history is any indication, your username hints of a future road that will be a bit…well…bumpy. Do you mean that my username itself will be a problem, or just that many who say they are Christians don’t fare so well in the GD area? If it is the latter, I hope to defy that tradition; if the former, I’ll change the name if it would help. I don’t think my name _should_ affect the way any of my GD posts are received, but I do see how it _could_. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/38 "2003-09-19T04:30:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kniz \* > \*\*How about the possibility that all of the other conditions, such as Last Rites, exist only for the preservation of organized religion? 😉 \*\* They exist for the comfort of the dying and their loved ones. I don’t think that is a trivial need. ---
**Author:** ![RoundGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90ced4/32.png) [@RoundGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoundGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/39 "2003-09-19T15:26:39Z")
> [@](#): > > If it is the latter, I hope to defy that tradition; I hope you do. It would be a nice change of pace. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163/40 "2003-09-19T18:23:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*My own Church treats this question thus: > > We cannot exclude the possibility that someone will be saved outside the Church. However, Orthdoxy offers most people a better chance than they would have on their own or with another group. \*\* Yeah, that’s pretty much the Catholic point of view too-only they say the Catholic point of view offers the BEST chance. It’s just not the ONLY one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hell-does-exist-will-i-be-doomed-there-for-eternity/202163.md?page=3)