# If Hillary Clinton randomly walked into my office.... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 20, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402 "2010-09-20T14:22:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/1 "2010-09-20T14:22:07Z")
…how should I address her? Ms. Clinton? Mrs. Clinton? Mrs. Secretary of State? Hillary? Something else? I was going to make this a poll, but I suspect that there’s an appropriate or accepted way. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/2 "2010-09-20T14:23:16Z")
“Madam Secretary,” I believe, although you could probably get away with “Mrs. Clinton.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/3 "2010-09-20T14:44:14Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > “Madam Secretary,” I believe, although you could probably get away with “Mrs. Clinton.” This seems correct. From the State Department Protocol Office’s FAQ: > [@](#): > > Q: How do you address the Secretary of State? > A: When addressing an envelope to the Secretary of State, it would be: > The Honorable > Hillary Rodham Clinton > Secretary of State > Washington, D.C. 20520 > The salutation would be: Dear Madam Secretary > Q: Does a person retain the honorific title “The Honorable” after leaving the position for which they hold it? > > A: Yes, a person who has been in a position that entitled them to “The Honorable” continues to retain that honorific title even after he or she leaves that position. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/4 "2010-09-20T15:14:24Z")
“Madam Secretary” or “Secretary Clinton” would be the two most accepted ways. Mrs. Clinton can also be used, but it is not nearly as common outside of the pages of the New York Times. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/5 "2010-09-20T15:49:46Z")
When did she drop the Rodham? ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/6 "2010-09-20T16:38:15Z")
“Bitch, get out of my office.” ? Not a fan. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/7 "2010-09-20T16:43:15Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > When did she drop the Rodham? She didn’t. Since at least the time she has been in the Senate, she has been Senator Clinton, not Senator Rodham Clinton. Her name is still Hillary Rodham Clinton. [Cite.](http://www.state.gov/secretary/c27775.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/8 "2010-09-20T16:44:52Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > When did she drop the Rodham? She has never used it as part of her last name. When she was a Senator, she was “Senator Clinton.” She’s only ever used Rodham as part of her full name on letterheads (“Hillary Rodham Clinton”), but as far as formal/professional titles, she’s only ever used “Clinton.” ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/9 "2010-09-20T16:56:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Wilbo523](#): > > > > When did she drop the Rodham? > > She has never used it as part of her last name. When she was a Senator, she was “Senator Clinton.” She’s only ever used Rodham as part of her full name on letterheads (“Hillary Rodham Clinton”), but as far as formal/professional titles, she’s only ever used “Clinton.” Wrong. When she was an attorney with the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, she was Hillary Rodham. It wasn’t until after Bill’s failed gubenatorial campaign and then during his '92 campaign that she started going publicly by “Clinton”. I’m not aware that she ever legally changed her name to Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/10 "2010-09-20T18:27:50Z")
Since that is the name she went by as Senator and as Secretary of State, I’m assuming it’s her legal name unless you have evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/11 "2010-09-20T20:55:22Z")
How does one randomly walk? Do you mean ‘unexpectedly’? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/12 "2010-09-20T20:57:45Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > How does one randomly walk? Down Wall Street? ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/13 "2010-09-20T21:04:48Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > > [@corkboard](#): > > > > How does one randomly walk? > > Down Wall Street? Pretty good. I thought of that book as soon as I posted the OP. I guess I meant “accidentally”, since she would have no reason to enter my office. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/14 "2010-09-20T21:18:22Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > She has never used it as part of her last name. When she was a Senator, she was “Senator Clinton.” She’s only ever used Rodham as part of her full name on letterheads (“Hillary Rodham Clinton”), but as far as formal/professional titles, she’s only ever used “Clinton.” > > Wrong. When she was an attorney with the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, she was Hillary Rodham. It wasn’t until after Bill’s failed gubenatorial campaign and then during his '92 campaign that she started going publicly by “Clinton”. I’m not aware that she ever legally changed her name to Clinton. This. I remember reading somewhere about this and that Bill left it up to her entirely, but she decided to adopt his name so as not to further hurt the cause (in the eyes of the American people, I mean). ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/15 "2010-09-20T21:40:49Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > > [@Wilbo523](#): > > > > Wrong. When she was an attorney with the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, she was Hillary Rodham. It wasn’t until after Bill’s failed gubenatorial campaign and then during his '92 campaign that she started going publicly by “Clinton”. I’m not aware that she ever legally changed her name to Clinton. > > This. I remember reading somewhere about this and that Bill left it up to her entirely, but she decided to adopt his name so as not to further hurt the cause (in the eyes of the American people, I mean). It was at the suggestion of Vernon Jordan, Bill’s political advisor. Frank White, who had defeated Clinton for governor in 1980, campaigned introducing his wife, as Mrs. Frank White, it was believed that it was one of the reasons Clinton lost his re-election bid. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/16 "2010-09-20T21:49:55Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > > > This. I remember reading somewhere about this and that Bill left it up to her entirely, but she decided to adopt his name so as not to further hurt the cause (in the eyes of the American people, I mean). > > It was at the suggestion of Vernon Jordan, Bill’s political advisor. Frank White, who had defeated Clinton for governor in 1980, campaigned introducing his wife, as Mrs. Frank White, it was believed that it was one of the reasons Clinton lost his re-election bid. There you go. That’s definitely what I was thinking of, but just had a half memory :). ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/17 "2010-09-20T21:58:34Z")
It would take her some doing to get into my office. Not only would she have to pick the right oddly configured house-like structure in a rural town, but she’d have to survive the attempt to bypass my secretary. Assuming that somehow happened, she’d then have to come down the hall, turn left, ignore a sometimes occupied room, then climb the stairs. Odds are good that my loyal secretary would have buzzed me to warn me about the crazy lady running loose in the building. Or she might call me on her cell from the safety of the office of the gay couple who run the antique store next to us. But she’d probably call. Anyway, if all that happened, and Hillary herself is standing in my office, she’ll get the same response any other woman would get… “Can I help you with something, Ma’am?” ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/18 "2010-09-20T21:59:19Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > …It was at the suggestion of Vernon Jordan, Bill’s political advisor. Frank White, who had defeated Clinton for governor in 1980, campaigned introducing his wife, as Mrs. Frank White, it was believed that it was one of the reasons Clinton lost his re-election bid. And using her maiden name as a middle name wouldn’t raise any eyebrows; it was something expected. Often women in the South weren’t even given middle names at birth on the assumption that they’ll use their maiden name as a middle name after marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/19 "2010-09-20T22:26:03Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > . . . I’m not aware that she ever legally changed her name to Clinton. Pedantically speaking, one does not get one’s name legally changed after a marriage or divorce. One simply fills out a change of name card at the DMV and then uses the new license as ID to change everything else. It’s a common law process that goes smoothly unless you meet a clerk who thinks that changing a name on marriage is normal but changing it after a divorce requires a judge. The clerk is wrong. It is also perfectly legal to have one name for social or professional purposes and another for legal or other purposes, as long as there is no intent to defraud. So legality doesn’t come into it. If she started using the name Clinton, then she started using the name Clinton. If she only used/uses it in some circumstances, that’s interesting, but it’s all legal and none of it requires a judge. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402/20 "2010-09-21T04:20:09Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Often women in the South weren’t even given middle names at birth on the assumption that they’ll use their maiden name as a middle name after marriage. I think “often” may be overstating it. I am from the south and all of my ancestors are from the south. I have yet to ever meet any woman from the south that did not have a middle name given at birth. Too many Sue’s, Mae’s, and Lee’s too count. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-clinton-randomly-walked-into-my-office/554402.md?page=2)