# if hillary wins and obama pardons her over her baggage ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204 "2016-05-07T19:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/21 "2016-05-09T18:24:00Z")
I’m unclear on the actual details of an impeachment. As I understand it, impeachment is simply a tool, justified using the “High crimes and misdemeanor” language, to remove a President from power. I thought it confers no actual judicial power to Congress, as they are not judges or court officers. They can’t actually impeach a person and sentence them to a jail term, right? The pardon, therefore, would be a pointless defense against impeachment, since the impeachment isn’t a jailable offense and the pardon only deals with criminal prosecution. Someone could be pardoned for murder, but Congress can still impeach them because impeachment requires no legal judicial justification, they can do it because they don’t like the guy. Is that understanding accurate? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/22 "2016-05-09T19:00:24Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > And since a conviction upon impeachment results in a bar to holding further federal office in the future. [nitpick]It’s a penalty that may be included, but is not automatic. For instance, Alcee Hastings was removed from the bench, but was not barred from holding office, and is now a member of the House. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/23 "2016-05-09T19:07:20Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > I’m unclear on the actual details of an impeachment. > > As I understand it, impeachment is simply a tool, justified using the “High crimes and misdemeanor” language, to remove a President from power. I thought it confers no actual judicial power to Congress, as they are not judges or court officers. They can’t actually impeach a person and sentence them to a jail term, right? > > The pardon, therefore, would be a pointless defense against impeachment, since the impeachment isn’t a jailable offense and the pardon only deals with criminal prosecution. Someone could be pardoned for murder, but Congress can still impeach them because impeachment requires no legal judicial justification, they can do it because they don’t like the guy. > > Is that understanding accurate? Pretty much right. The Constitution does spell out that removal from office and bar from holding future office is the only penalty that can be imposed for conviction in an impeachment. And \*\*Frank \*\*is quite right, bar from future holding office is not mandatory. Congress can impeach, but cannot jail someone upon conviction in an impeachment. And the Constitution explicitly spells out that a pardon cannot be used for an impeachment. > [@](#): > > The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and **he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.** ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/24 "2016-05-09T19:50:11Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > To be fair, Mrs. Clinton does not _advocate_ torture, but has merely indicated her willingness to sign warrants, if the investigatory bodies assure her it is really, really, really, really necessary. That’s a rather strange response. I was sure it was Trump who openly advocated torture during at least one debate. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/25 "2016-05-09T19:57:30Z")
Would Spiro Agnew have been impeached and removed from office if he hadn’t resigned? > ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/26 "2016-05-09T20:14:27Z")
so they still can impeach her even if she gets pardoned for the e-mails Benghazi ect got it Although I think if they tried it would be like them trying against bill for whitewater and the Lewinsky ect … thanks ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/27 "2016-05-09T22:24:54Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > That could raise a question the Supreme Court could theoretically be called upon to answer: Does removal from office by impeachment mean that a person previously pardoned who is removed from office by impeachment can still be tried for the crime for which they were pardoned? IANAL, but I think this is so clear that SCOTUS weighing in is unnecessary: no, the person previously pardoned cannot still be tried for the crime for which they were previously pardoned. Provided the pardon was applicable (ie, a state could still try someone who had received a Presidential pardon, since said pardon is not applicable to state crimes.) An intervening impeachment does not affect this. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/28 "2016-05-09T23:50:10Z")
Considering she isn’t even being investigated for any crime, no. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/29 "2016-05-10T00:22:52Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Considering she isn’t even being investigated for any crime, no. The FBI is investigating with reference to classified information on her private email server. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/30 "2016-05-10T01:38:04Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The FBI is investigating with reference to classified information on her private email server. They are not investigating _ **her** _. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/31 "2016-05-10T03:01:25Z")
What baggage? Doesn’t a pardon at least require SOME baggage? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/32 "2016-05-10T03:55:14Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Considering she isn’t even being investigated for any crime, no. > [@PastTense](#): > > The FBI is investigating with reference to classified information on her private email server. Not for any crime. There are questions regarding State Department regulations. It’s an administrative matter. No crime has been alleged by any Justice Department official investigating this. Taking highly sensitive documents home and putting them in your wall safe there might – or might not – violate State Department regulations. A home email server is a lot like a home wall-safe. Even the worst possible outcome for Clinton would only be a scolding for not following proper procedures. She’ll say Mea Culpa and I’m Sorry and that’s all there is to it. ---
**Author:** ![ProDentite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@ProDentite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProDentite)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204/33 "2016-05-16T00:57:05Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > Someone pointed it out to me that if Hillary wins the election pres Obama might just pardon her for anything that happened while she was sec of state so she dosent get hassled after becoming pres > And he dosent look bad for picking her in the first place … > > Is that a viable course of action ? I mean it wouldn’t look good but I’m sure it could be spun in a way like " we just need to get past this for the good of the country" People aren’t that stupid, plus despite her extremely ethically checkered career, I don’t think she has ever been convicted of anything so what could she have pardoned? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-hillary-wins-and-obama-pardons-her-over-her-baggage/754204.md?page=1)