# If homosexuality is so sinful, why isn't its prohibition one of the 10 Commandments? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376 "2006-05-26T21:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/21 "2006-05-26T23:52:19Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Christians break it, every week when they go Sunday Shopping. Not true. The Sabbath starts Friday night and basically covers Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/22 "2006-05-26T23:52:45Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > You’ll note that Christ said nothing on the subject ( and some think Jesus was gay himself, in fact ). He made his position clear on lots of things; if homosexuality was so earthshaking an evil, he’d have mentioned it. Although Jesus never formally said “Homosexuality is still bad,” there are prohibitions against homosexuality in the New Testament (See, e.g., [1 Timothy 1:9-11](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1timothy/1timothy1.htm) (which equally condemns lying); [1 Corinthians 6:9-10](http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/1cor6.html) (which equally condemns drunkeness)). Jesus also talks about marriage in terms of a man and a woman: > [@Mark 10](#): > > The Pharisees approached and asked, “Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?” They were testing him. He said to them in reply, “What did Moses command you?” They replied, “Moses permitted him to write a bill of divorce and dismiss her.” But Jesus told them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts he wrote you this commandment. But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother (and be joined to his wife), and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate.” And homosexuality was certainly prohibited under the law of the Old Testament, and Jesus said this: > [@Matthew 5:17-21](#): > > “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.” Some people think Jesus was saying that all of the laws in the Old Testament still apply. (Note – I don’t agree with this interpretation.) ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/23 "2006-05-26T23:56:41Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Alright, you win. I should’t have used the word “dogma”. Would “teaching” be ok? Or “thought”? I specifically chose Aquinas because he was pre-Reformation, and you had to go and spoil my argument :D. I think “teaching” or “thought” would be fine, so long as we agree that Christians are free to believe whatever they want to believe, and just because Aquinas or CS Lewis or the Pope say something about God’s will or law mean they speak for all Christianity, or that they’re correct. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/24 "2006-05-27T00:14:43Z")
> [@Vlad/Igor](#): > > An interesting re-wording of the question would be: Why do we [Christians] pay an inordinate amount of attention to 10 Levitical laws and ignore the other 600? What makes those more important (even if they don’t specifically mention homosexuality) than the other laws? I think the answer is that they’re not more important. Or at least they shouldn’t be. First of all, as I said above, homosexuality is condemned in more places than just one chapter in Leviticus. Second, one possible reason that Levitical laws do not apply to Christians anymore is that Levitical laws applied under the Old Covenant between man and God. Jesus came and established a New Covenant, which superseded the laws of the Old Covenant. Here’s [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_theology) on the subject, and here’s [Hebrews 8](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/hebrews/hebrews8.htm) and [9](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/hebrews/hebrews9.htm). As I said above, some people think Jesus’s new laws incorporated all of the old laws. And some people don’t believe in the New Covenant theory. So there’s certainly some disagreement about this. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/25 "2006-05-27T00:22:20Z")
I’ve always thought that, based on todays idealogues, that ‘thou shall not be gay’ was the 12th commandment. “Thou shall not abort” must be the 11th. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slip\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f475e1/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slip\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slip_1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/26 "2006-05-27T00:43:50Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > I hope someone will come along with an authoritative description of what constitutes an “abomination,” because I suspect it doesn’t mean “super sin.” There’s a book called “What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality” by Daniel Helminiak, Ph.D. [Linky linky](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188636009X/sr=8-1/qid=1148689630/ref=sr_1_1/104-7142327-2296700?%5Fencoding=UTF8) There’s a whole chapter entitled “The Abomination of Leviticus” - he starts off to say that “homogenital sex meant to be like the Gentiles, to identify with the non-Jews.” (p45) It was the meaning behind having homosexual sex, not the sex act itself, that was the problem for members of the Jewish faith as it was against the Holiness Code of Leviticus. According to the author, abomination is another word for “unclean” as per his interpretation of Lev 20:25-26. “The early Israelites thought it [homogenital sex] was dirty. It was prohibited not because it was wrong in itself but because it offended sensitivities … Homogenitality made a man like a Canaanite. And to the Israelites, God’s chosen people, that was unacceptable.” (p51-2) The book is pretty fascinating, for those interested in the topic. ;j ---
**Author:** ![bagkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ab992/32.png) [@bagkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bagkitty)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/27 "2006-05-27T01:16:37Z")
But an eleventh commandment would mean the tablets wouldn’t be symmetrical anymore :wally ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/28 "2006-05-27T02:14:19Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > I’ve heard it’s a theory being bounced around mostly in Europe, based on some line about Jesus having a “special love” for one of the Apostles; John, I think. I don’t know the details. A bunch of years ago in high school, we were supposed to find a website for a history class pertaining to one of the Revolutionaries in America. I picked Alexander Hamilton. The first thing that came up after the search was a site that claimed he was gay and that his partner was George Washington. Apparently, George’s marriage to Martha was one of convenience. I printed it up on pink paper and handed it in. On the same paper was a link to Jesus, who they claimed was gay and had some evidence. I believe I clicked on it, but I don’t recall specifics. Long story short, that’s out there on the internets, if you wanna look fer it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/29 "2006-05-27T02:16:37Z")
> [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > A bunch of years ago in high school, we were supposed to find a website for a history class pertaining to one of the Revolutionaries in America. I picked Alexander Hamilton. The first thing that came up after the search was a site that claimed he was gay and that his partner was George Washington. Apparently, George’s marriage to Martha was one of convenience. I printed it up on pink paper and handed it in. > > On the same paper was a link to Jesus, who they claimed was gay and had some evidence. I believe I clicked on it, but I don’t recall specifics. > > Long story short, that’s out there on the internets, if you wanna look fer it. Or check post #8 in this thread… ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/30 "2006-05-27T02:17:49Z")
> [@bagkitty](#): > > But an eleventh commandment would mean the tablets wouldn’t be symmetrical anymore > > :wally It was the third one on the third tablet, the one that Mel Brooks dropped. Don’t be a Dick. Everyone should NOT love Raymond. No sleeping with people of your gender. Wear white after Labor Day. Draw Happy Trees. and… Fuck tha Police. ---
**Author:** ![Tripwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tripwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripwire)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/31 "2006-05-27T02:24:36Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > Actually, the Bible **is** the “be all and end all of Christian dogma.” At least according to the Bible. See Deut. 4:2 (“You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.”); Wow, now that’s a neat trick. This passage, written long before the entire NT, is referring to the Bible. And Christians, who not only mistranslate and mangle Jewish scriptures as well as explicitly NOT following this command (since they have definately not kept the commandments there referred to, and have in fact played cafateria-style games with which to follow) are somehow in a position to lecture us on this? > [@](#): > > Prov. 30:6 (Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar."); So, wait: the NT is, what again, according to this passage which supposedly you think refers to all of Scripture? > [@](#): > > Rev. 22:18-19 (“For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”); So this applies to the entire Bible, how, again? > [@](#): > > At least since the Protestant Reformation, most Christians have been making up their own minds what the Bible means based on what the Bible says. Which unfortunately happens to be utterly incoherent. The idea that the Bible is the sole authority on what Christianity is all about is an idea that’s less than 500 years old. Before then, everyone understood that scriptures could only really be understood in light of the traditions and other teachings passed down and with the scriptures. Heck, Jews and Catholics still understand that. And it makes a heck of a lot more sense than the “Bible-only” heresy. For instance, many Protestants reject intercessory prayer because it’s not in the Bible. Well, guess what: it existed long BEFORE the Bible: a practice of the early church. Why does it make sense to dump something that was good enough for the early church in favor of a collection of texts put together 400 years later that even THEN wasn’t meant to be the be-all and end-all of things, just what was considered to be the finest and most reliable and important documents? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/32 "2006-05-27T02:25:34Z")
> [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > It was the third one on the third tablet, the one that Mel Brooks dropped. > > Don’t be a Dick. > > Everyone should NOT love Raymond. > > No sleeping with people of your gender. > > Wear white after Labor Day. > > Draw Happy Trees. > > and… > > Fuck tha Police. I liked the list by Judith Hayes: [http://www.valleyskeptic.com/tencom\_1.htm](http://www.valleyskeptic.com/tencom_1.htm) My favorite: > [@](#): > > 1. Thou shalt not pick all the cashews out of the mixed nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/33 "2006-05-27T02:43:38Z")
This is true. There’s only a finite amount of cashews in the mixed nuts, people. Of course you like the cashews…I like em mah-self. Don’t go bogarting them and keeping all the cashewy goodness to yourself. This falls under “Don’t be a Dick”, as far as I’m concerned. This is just simply a shade of Dickery. If you’ve seen Team America, then you know what Dicks are capable of. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/34 "2006-05-27T03:09:18Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > Actually, the Bible is the “be all and end all of Christian dogma.” At least according to the Bible. See Deut. 4:2 (“You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.”); Prov. 30:6 (Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.") Ironic that Christians ignored these admonitions and added a whole bunch of new scripture. > [@](#): > > Rev. 22:18-19 (“For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”) This passage applies only to the Book of Revelation itself. The New Testament didn’t even exist yet and the author had no idea that his apocalypse was ever going to be Canonized as part of anyone’s Bible. > [@](#): > > .Although Jesus never formally said “Homosexuality is still bad,” there are prohibitions against homosexuality in the New Testament (See, e.g., [1 Timothy 1:9-11](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1timothy/1timothy1.htm) (which equally condemns lying); [1 Corinthians 6:9-10](http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/1cor6.html) (which equally condemns drunkeness)). These passages do not condemn homosexuality. The Greek in these passages is typically mistranslated in English. Nothing in the NT condemns homsexuality. > [@](#): > > Jesus also talks about marriage in terms of a man and a woman He doesn’t explicitly say it _has_ to be a man and a woman and comments on marriage really have nothing to do with homosexuality anyway. > [@](#): > > And homosexuality was certainly prohibited under the law of the Old Testament, and Jesus said this:Some people think Jesus was saying that all of the laws in the Old Testament still apply. (Note – I don’t agree with this interpretation.) It’s not so certain that the Hebrew Bible condemns homosexuality (as opposed to homesxual acts in the context of cultic practices) and Jesus supposedly repealed all the Levitical laws anyway. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/35 "2006-05-27T03:25:27Z")
The Roman Catholic Church considers homosexual activity to be subsumed under the commandment against adultery, as it considers all fornication (including masturbation). ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/36 "2006-05-27T03:39:03Z")
It is the ten commandments - “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his _ **ass** _…” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/37 "2006-05-27T03:47:46Z")
> [@HeelB4Zod](#): > > I think it’s interesting considering that homosexuality was a topic that was covered and dutifully condemned in the Bible, why wasn’t homosexuality specifically forbidden in the 10 Commandments? Ermm . . . Because it’s just too **embarrassing** to be mentioned in the Decalogue? Sure it’s forbidden, but discreetly buried among the details, like building your roof with a parapet and not mixing wool with cotton. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/38 "2006-05-27T04:18:00Z")
> [@bup](#): > > It is the ten commandments - “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his _ **ass** _…” It is worse than that. 🙂 The complete 10th commandment: “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, **nor his manservant, nor his maidservant,** nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor’s.” Notice the white wash? While new translations go to pains to make sound innocuous, those servants there were **slaves**. I bring that up because in the commandments here we have an item that is considered now a worse sin than coveting: keeping other human beings in bondage, and I’m not talking about the kinky kind. Whereas they like it or not, society changes, and religions changed with no problems in the far past because virtually everything was an oral tradition, unfortunately these days we have writing that has the pesky habit of showing how inadequate is to apply rules of the past in the world of the present. Attempting to enforce unfair old rules, that before would have been changed with little fuss to make religion more in tune with society, is what IMHO will eventually end the old time religions. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/39 "2006-05-27T04:19:13Z")
> [@bup](#): > > It is the ten commandments - “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his _ **ass** _…” OTOH, we have, “Thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376/40 "2006-05-27T04:30:15Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Of course, God destroys Sodom and Gomorrah Not everybody believes that was about homosexuality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-homosexuality-is-so-sinful-why-isnt-its-prohibition-one-of-the-10-commandments/358376.md?page=3)