# If I have a 3-way with a mother and daughter, could I be committing a crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610 "2006-07-30T22:09:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/41 "2006-07-31T19:30:10Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Cite? [/QUOTE] Well, there’s the Virginia Code’s definition of “forcible sodomy” (Va Code 18.267.1.A), that says in relevant part: > [@](#): > > An accused shall be guilty of forcible sodomy if he or she engages in cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus, or anal intercourse with a complaining witness whether or not his or her spouse, or causes a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, to engage in such acts with any other person, (and the rest of the definition goes into what makes it “forcible”) And 18.2-361, the “Crimes Against Nature” part, deals with both sodomy and incest: > [@](#): > > A. If any person carnally knows in any manner any brute animal, or carnally knows any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth, or voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge, he or she shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony, except as provided in subsection B. > > B. Any person who performs or causes to be performed cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus or anal intercourse upon or by his daughter or granddaughter, son or grandson, brother or sister, or father or mother is guilty of a Class 5 felony. However, if a parent or grandparent commits any such act with his child or grandchild and such child or grandchild is at least 13 but less than 18 years of age at the time of the offense, such parent or grandparent is guilty of a Class 3 felony. > > C. For the purposes of this section, parent includes step-parent, grandparent includes step-grandparent, child includes step-child and grandchild includes step-grandchild. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/42 "2006-07-31T19:30:55Z")
[QUOTE=Malienation] Incest statutes apply only when one of the partners is a minor. It’s perfectly legal, AFAIK, to have sex with a relative, even a close one, when all persons involved are adults. Of course, they would not be allowed to marry if they so desired (although first cousins are allowed to marry in some states, and, in fact, in most of the rest of the world). [/QUOTE] Fascinating. But then how do you explain Virginia’s Code § 18.2-366, which provides in pertinent part: > [@](#): > > Any person who commits adultery or fornication with his daughter or granddaughter, or with her son or grandson, or her father or his mother, shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony. Any chance you might be a bit off base with your statement? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/43 "2006-07-31T19:33:23Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Well, there’s the Virginia Code’s definition of “forcible sodomy” (Va Code 18.267.1.A), that says in relevant part: [legalese] (and the rest of the definition goes into what makes it “forcible”) [/QUOTE] “…or shall cause complaining witness to squeal like a pig…” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/44 "2006-07-31T19:35:22Z")
The original claim: _Actually, in a lot of cases “sodomy” is defined simply as “sexual activity that is non-procreative”_. I asked for a cite. **Captain Amazing** offers: [QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Well, there’s the Virginia Code’s definition of “forcible sodomy” (Va Code 18.267.1.A), that says in relevant part: > [@](#): > > An accused shall be guilty of forcible sodomy if he or she engages in cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus, or anal intercourse with a complaining witness whether or not his or her spouse, or causes a complaining witness, whether or not his or her spouse, to engage in such acts with any other person, (and the rest of the definition goes into what makes it “forcible”) And 18.2-361, the “Crimes Against Nature” part, deals with both sodomy and incest: > [@](#): > > A. If any person carnally knows in any manner any brute animal, or carnally knows any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth, or voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge, he or she shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony, except as provided in subsection B. > > B. Any person who performs or causes to be performed cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus or anal intercourse upon or by his daughter or granddaughter, son or grandson, brother or sister, or father or mother is guilty of a Class 5 felony. However, if a parent or grandparent commits any such act with his child or grandchild and such child or grandchild is at least 13 but less than 18 years of age at the time of the offense, such parent or grandparent is guilty of a Class 3 felony. > > C. For the purposes of this section, parent includes step-parent, grandparent includes step-grandparent, child includes step-child and grandchild includes step-grandchild. [/QUOTE] And you contend that the list of activities mentioned above are coterminous with “sexual activity that is non-procreative?” You contend it’s correct, based on the laws you’ve quoted, to define sodomy as “sexual activity that is non-procreative?” ---
**Author:** ![Iggins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Iggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggins)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/45 "2006-07-31T19:46:50Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Come to think of it, there are a couple of identical twins, whose names I can’r recall, that do porn films together. I wonder if they’ve talked to a lawyer about this? [/QUOTE] As an aside to the main conversation: In the vids I’ve seen of the twins, there is very little touching between the women - they seem to focus on the man. They will watch and touch themselves… I suppose that makes sense, as they are probably not into each other, being sisters and all. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/46 "2006-07-31T19:55:11Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Wait a sec. **Is** incest illegal, or are we all just assuming it is? Obviously and truly, incestuous \*marriage \*is illegal (although different states have different definitions of “incest” for marriage), but is incestuous \*sex \*between consenting adults illegal in all states and nations? I tried googling an answer, but besides sex sites, I only found one actual cite that incestual sex is illegal: Maryland’s Model Penal Code Sec 230.2, apparently forbids incestual sex. What about the rest of us? [/QUOTE] I was actually about to use Maryland’s law as an example. Most states have some incest prohibition (try looking it up through the individual states’ statutes, not through Google) but the specifics vary widely. In Connecticut, for instance, any sex in the same degree of consanguinity that would prevent marriage is technically illegal, but the wording of Maryland’s law only prohibit’s vaginal intercourse. I suppose the MD law originally assumed the other sorts would be taken care of by sodomy laws, but since those have been struck down they’re off-limits. Upshot: a brother and sister can screw, but only if it’s up the butt. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/47 "2006-07-31T19:57:58Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] And you contend that the list of activities mentioned above are coterminous with “sexual activity that is non-procreative?” You contend it’s correct, based on the laws you’ve quoted, to define sodomy as “sexual activity that is non-procreative?” [/QUOTE] Actually, I thought you were challenging the statement “oral sex falls into this category as well”. The cite I gave was merely in support of that. I don’t know of any jurisdiction that defines sodomy as any “sexual activity that is non-procreative”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/48 "2006-07-31T21:41:36Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Actually, I thought you were challenging the statement “oral sex falls into this category as well”. The cite I gave was merely in support of that. I don’t know of any jurisdiction that defines sodomy as any “sexual activity that is non-procreative”. [/QUOTE] We’re in agreement, then. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/49 "2006-07-31T22:03:44Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker, quotingVirginia’s Code § 18.2-366] Any person who commits adultery or fornication with **his** daughter or granddaughter, or with **her** son or grandson, or **her** father or **his** mother, shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony. [/QUOTE] So under a strict reading of the statute, the OP’s scenario is legal in Virginia. Nowhere does the statute state that a person who commits adultery or fornication with _her_ daughter or _her_ mother is guilty of anything. Unless maybe Virginia has a statutory construction law that allows for gender-specific pronouns to be read non-specifically? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/50 "2006-07-31T22:10:00Z")
If you are not married to both the mother and the daughter, then your scenario would clearly be illegal wherever both polygamy and fornication are prohibited. I would be very curious to know whether jursidictions which permit polygamy, such as Sharia Islamic countries, would permit you to marry a mother and her daughter. For that matter, I’d like to know whether it’s normal to have group sex in polygamous Islamic marriages, or if the husband is expected to have sex with only one wife at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/51 "2006-07-31T22:16:20Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] We’re in agreement, then. [/QUOTE] Yep. Appears so. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/52 "2006-07-31T22:26:16Z")
With you all focused on the women, I’m still uncertain on MY legal position, though I’m gaining confidence that I’m in the clear. I accept as a fact that there are likely places where one or both of them might face charges. The terms \*inciting. abetting, \*and _conspiracy_ still ring mental alam bells for me. Jeez, if I could be guilty of abetting their incest, I wouldn’t even have to be sexually involved myself. It might be that all it would take would be for me to talk them into it, or knowingly provide them a room for the purpose. If I could be charged just for watching, I might as well join in. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/53 "2006-07-31T22:40:43Z")
> [@](#): > > B. Any person who performs or causes to be performed cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus or anal intercourse upon or by his daughter or granddaughter, son or grandson, brother or sister, or father or mother is guilty of a Class 5 felony. However, if a parent or grandparent commits any such act with his child or grandchild and such child or grandchild is at least 13 but less than 18 years of age at the time of the offense, such parent or grandparent is guilty of a Class 3 felony. Wait, so great-grandma is still on the table? Awesome! ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/54 "2006-07-31T22:43:17Z")
[QUOTE=psychonaut] If you are not married to both the mother and the daughter, then your scenario would clearly be illegal wherever both polygamy and fornication are prohibited. [/QUOTE] How are you running afoul of anti polygamy laws in this situation? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/55 "2006-07-31T23:09:10Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Wait, so great-grandma is still on the table? Awesome! [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t she be more comfortable on the bed? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/56 "2006-07-31T23:22:03Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] With you all focused on the women [/QUOTE] And this shocks you… how? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/57 "2006-07-31T23:32:05Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Wouldn’t she be more comfortable on the bed? [/QUOTE] Bwahahaha… ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/58 "2006-08-01T02:02:53Z")
Just to send things further afield, I’d just like to point out that there’s a slang term for this kind of 3-way in Japanese: _ **oyakodon** _, literally: “parent and child in a bowl”, which is the name of a dish made from chicken and eggs, and was the same dish that inspired [Paul Simon](http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/mother.htm) to write “Mother and Child Reunion”. Just so you have something to think about the next time that song comes on the radio. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610/59 "2006-08-01T02:50:52Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] With you all focused on the women, I’m still uncertain on MY legal position, though I’m gaining confidence that I’m in the clear. [/QUOTE] Well, sure, but if what they’re doing isn’t a crime, then you’re not inciting, abetting or conspiring to commit a crime, see? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-have-a-3-way-with-a-mother-and-daughter-could-i-be-committing-a-crime/366610.md?page=2)