# If I hear another butch faggot bitching about femme guys I am going to go postal. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2001, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912 "2001-01-26T20:32:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Medea\_s\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2001, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/121 "2001-01-31T03:11:24Z")
Ew! You guys are flaunting your homo sexual… Oh, no wait…I actually don’t mind…can I have a tape? [sub](come to think of it I do mind, you’re all too damn cute to be unavailable…I’ll get over it…eventually…)[/sub] As to the OP, People should fit molds…which is good because they dont and its more fun that way. Be yourself, love who you wish, and don’t tromp all over other people. Its all good. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/122 "2001-01-31T03:40:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Kepi \* > > But, you know, I don’t spend much time in the gay clubs anyway since I can’t dance. > > ] > > Don’t worry about it. Hell, I can’t dance either. (Doesn’t stop me from _trying_, of course… Just as long as you don’t get a job dancing around in a blue fur trimmed bikini and gold boots, we won’t have a problem. (waits for someone to get the reference…) Ooooh…can you make some copies of that, Kathryn? ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2001, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/123 "2001-01-31T12:31:26Z")
I think Deacon’s opinions of femmes is no worse than Chris Rock’s ‘I hate niggers’ routine. If he was straight, it might be different. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/124 "2001-01-31T14:21:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Now, matt, not only have I seen the Pet Shop Boys in concert, I’ve seen Erasure! > > > > Wait . . . that doesn’t make me gay, does it? > > Yup, pretty much. Andy Bell is gay plutonium, contaminating all within reach with limp wrists, sibilant “S”'s, and a preoccupation with Liza’s weight problem. \*\* Well, that explains the presence of those boxer briefs in my underwear drawer, I guess. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/125 "2001-02-01T03:11:48Z")
I like femme guys. Fairy-boys are so -kyoot- and snuggable! -Ashley ---
**Author:** ![kirk280980](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c77e96/32.png) [@kirk280980](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirk280980)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/126 "2001-02-01T03:38:34Z")
Even though I’m not femme, and I’m not attracted to femmes either, that doesn’t mean to say I see them as being less worthy members of the gay community compared to myself. As far as I’m concerned, they’re happy the way they are, and that makes me happy for them also. Hell, for me, the best thing about the queer community is the fact that it’s so diverse. Gay, lesbian, bisexual, transvestite, transsexual, masculine, femme - while all different in so many ways, they all go together perfectly in my opinion. As they say, it would be a dull, dull world if everyone was the same. I know lots of gay men who have something against femmes, lesbians and transvestites. Am I’m standing there thinking, “What harm are they doing to you?”. These are the same people that whinge about lack of tolerance, yet are themselves intolerant of anyone who’s different. Not only is it hypocritical, but it’s not exactly the best way to ensure progress. Bottom line - live your life the way you want, and let others do likewise. Diversity should be valued… remember that variety is the spice of life. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/127 "2001-02-01T14:28:07Z")
I like to embrace the diversity of the gay world…except for the idiot who insists on bringing a tambourine to a gay bar and starts trying to play along with Britney! ---
**Author:** ![Deacons\_Trucked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d78d45/32.png) [@Deacons\_Trucked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deacons_Trucked)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/128 "2001-02-01T17:02:11Z")
I just think it’s sad that so few people cant understand the concept of not making “gay” such an important thing in one’s life. And I think its sad that **I** am considered the one who “has issues” and that **I** am the one who is “sheltered”. I have issues because I can’t relate to many gay people? I’m sheltered because the fact that I sleep with the same gender as myself ISN’T a huge factor in my life? Whatever. I think its funny that the gay people who preach such tolerance and acceptance are so quick to cut down someone who doesnt believe exactly what they believe. And **LaurAnge** , I really dont think that “being straight” is a huge part of your life. Maybe your BOYFRIEND is a huge part of your life, but not the fact that you are in love with a MAN as opposed to a woman or a sheep. My boyfriend is very important to me, not the fact that he’s a man. Sorry if you have no idea what that means. Thanx, **Mrinvisible** for expressing my opinions and beliefs so much better than I do. Sorry that expressing ones convictions causes such a problem, but this whole debate has strengthened my beliefs and made me even prouder of the person I am. I’m outta here… ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/129 "2001-02-01T17:26:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Deacons Trucked** _ > > I just think it’s sad that so few people cant understand the concept of not making “gay” such an important thing in one’s life. Well, I don’t think it’s sad, but it’s certain foreign to me how you see that it couldn’t. Different strokes for different folks. > [@](#): > > And I think its sad that **I** am considered the one who “has issues” and that **I** am the one who is “sheltered”. I suppose it’s your insistence that you have absolutely nothing in common with other “gay people” (quite a broad paintbrush if ever I heard one) that makes me think you might have a wee eensy internalized homophobia issue. Has the thought ever crossed your mind? It’s not surprising, given the society in which we live. > [@](#): > > I think its funny that the gay people who preach such tolerance and acceptance are so quick to cut down someone who doesnt believe exactly what they believe. No cutting, but, as **matt** ’s OP suggested, perhaps a little self-defense (also not surprising). When he feels he’s being the object of intolerance, it’s natural to react to that. > [@](#): > > Sorry that expressing ones convictions causes such a problem, but this whole debate has strengthened my beliefs and made me even prouder of the person I am. > I’m outta here… Hey, now, let’s not be ridiculous - you know we love having you here. Now c’mere and give daddy some sugar! 😉 Esprix ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/130 "2001-02-01T17:55:40Z")
[tongue in cheek] As a Pit Moderator, I would like to remind the participants of this thread of the forum rules. Large discussions of giant orgies of sodomy involving consenting homosexuals belong in MPSIMS. Large discussions of giant orgies of sodomy involving non-consenting heterosexuals belong in The Pit. [/tongue in cheek] And before anyone else says anything, that was _my_ tongue in _my_ cheek. Thank you. John Corrado, SDMB Moderator, The Pit Forum ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/131 "2001-02-01T18:08:51Z")
John, I would wonder what the sexual preferences of the participants have to do with the forum? 😃 Would large discussions of sodomy among consenting eunuchs belong in Comments on Cecil’s Columns (considering that he did one on that topic)? And it all depends, this being the Pit after all, on what cheek you’re referring to. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/132 "2001-02-01T18:16:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > John, I would wonder what the sexual preferences of the participants have to do with the forum? 😃 Generally, it goes hand-in-hand (or, for the more kinky, hand-in-ass) with willingness. While I suppose it would be possible for a large discussion of non-consensual sodomy amongst homosexuals to occur- and would belong in The Pit- such discussions are very rare. I have yet to see matt mcl threaten Esprix with forced anal pentration in anger. Lust, yes. Anger, no. > [@](#): > > Would large discussions of sodomy among consenting eunuchs belong in Comments on Cecil’s Columns (considering that he did one on that topic)? Absolutely. However, discussions of sodomy among non-consenting eunuchs would belong here in The Pit, along with all other discussions of moderator activity. > [@](#): > > And it all depends, this being the Pit after all, on what cheek you’re referring to. 😃 Given that it was my tongue and my cheek… well, let’s just say that’s why the ladies love me. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/133 "2001-02-01T18:34:59Z")
Whew!!! For a moment there, I though we were going to have a cat fight. 😛 :::d & r - VERY FAST::: ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/134 "2001-02-01T18:40:36Z")
As per your request, Mr. Corrado, I’ve started the orgy thread in MPSIMS. Dibs on the hot tub! ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/135 "2001-02-01T18:54:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **John Corrado** _ > > I have yet to see matt mcl threaten Esprix with forced anal pentration in anger. Lust, yes. Anger, no. Ooo! {ahem} Oh, **matt** , my darling? _You’re a pompous liberal ass who couldn’t be a top if a lesbian taught you how to do it! **Fuck you!** _ (Or me, as the case may be. ;)) Thank you, **John** , for introducing a new, fun-filled fantasy for me and my beloved! Esprix, who is actually a top, exclusive ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/136 "2001-02-01T19:08:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Esprix, who is actually a top, exclusive Until he meets me, that is. 😃 (Goboy, mostly a top but can be versatile. Either way, it’s a wild ride!) ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2001, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/137 "2001-02-05T12:59:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > \*\*No, I didn’t miss the thread, but it is just one more example of not getting included in the SDMB Gay Club. > > Does anyone lust after me? No. > Does anyone dream about me? No. > Does anyone flirt with me? No. > You guys get to have all the fun, and I’ll just sit in this corner and mope. \*\* Actually Goboy, from your descriptions of yourself, you’re the very type I lust for ;). I could be the one who lusts for you on this board _wink_ _wink_ anyway, onto the meat of my post… Deacons Tucked said: > [@](#): > > …be completely disgusted and confused over the oh-so-common statement “being a fag happens to be an > important part of my being, something that shapes a great deal of my life” > > …like who I am, including the fact that “gay” isnt an integral part of my life The two comments just boggle my mind. I’m not going to flame you deacons, but i’m going to put it in a racial perspective, to show you why it boggles my mind. First, I am half Filipino, Half white. Let’s hypothetically equate my sexuality (I am gay), with my Filipino side, shall we? "…be completely disgusted and confused over the oh-so-common statement “being Filipino happens to be an important part of my being, something that shapes a great deal of my life” Now, if someone were to say something like this to me, i dont see how I couldnt be absolutely boggled. How could being Filipino NOT shape a great deal of their life? Being half Filipino DOES in fact shape a great deal of my life. Like it or not, I am a part of a community that is diverse, despite having parts which I dislike (as you dislike certain parts of the gay community. Just as being half Filipino shapes a great deal of my life, so does being gay. But, to each his own. then: "…like who I am, including the fact that “Filipino” isnt an integral part of my life " Again, using Filipino to replace gay, to me this would be denying who I am. Denying a part of myself that is me. I think that a lot of what you said in that post implies that you’d rather not have anything to do with being gay. FTR, and i’m speaking for myself here: I consider myself masculine. While i’m not much into sports, I am not flamboyant or particularly femme (i’m not evenclose to being as prissy as my straight brothers). I remember when I came out to my friends they didnt at all suspect that I was gay, because i exhibited none of the femme or stereotypical traits that would have otherwise lead them to believe so. Even not having a girlfriend ever, or even voicing any interest in women didnt tip them off. My friend Dave on the other hand, was a dead giveaway. Everyone pretty much suspected, because he’s fairly flamboyant and femme at times (i’ve used him as an example many times for this because, well…he’s my only real life example). I just think of myself as me being me. Not trying to be butch, or trying to be femme. Just being how i’ve always been. I dont really do clubbing but will go with friends. I actually enjoyed the local gay club here, but not solely because it was a gay club, but because it was fun, and the music was good, not to mention it was time with friends (it’s called Norma Jean’s. Named after Marilyn Monroe…i can tell the story elsewhere if you all would like). While i dont particularly relate to the femme guys too much, i wouldnt put them down for being that way. To each his own, who am I to say theyre fitting into a stereotype? Hell, i could be accused of the same thing (trying to be masculine to distance myself from the femme guys). I find all types interesting, because it makes life interesting and varied to me. I’d never try to exclude someone because they were one way or another. Even if I cant really relate to femmeness, i would find other ways to relate, because i’m trying to connect with the person, not a mannerism. Also, I dislike using fag or queer to refer to myself. I’d rather use “gay” (I wouldn’t tell someone not to use them if they so please). ---
**Author:** ![Deacons\_Trucked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d78d45/32.png) [@Deacons\_Trucked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deacons_Trucked)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2001, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/138 "2001-02-05T15:52:06Z")
Well, my statements boggle your mind, and your statements boggle MY mind. You see why I dont relate to much of the gay community. Sorry you think that I would rather have nothing to do with being gay…that statement is just nothing more than false. But why does my sexuality, my Scotch-Irish ancestry, my agnosticism, or my brown hair have to be so important? I would much rather focus on my extreme passion for music, the depth of love I have in my heart, the wonderful people I know, my connection with and understanding of the world around me. If I were straight, black, Filipino, or Christian, I know I would still feel the same. Is it wrong to you that I dont place such emphasis on the fact that Im white? I dont see how people cant understand that I dont define myself by the things I am which I cant help. Why cant people understand that I am not defined by the things I AM or the “community” Im in…that I define myself by WHO I am, my personality, my love for others, the things I have passion for, and making myself the best person I can be? THOSE alone are the things that shape my being…the things that make me who I am, the things that, when I look back on my life, will make me say, “Well, you certainly did your part in being human…you sure made yourself the best person you could be!” I dont believe in denying anything about oneself…I would never, COULD never deny something I am, but I would much rather focus on ME than “gay”. I think that if people would concentrate on making themselves the best person they can be, instead of the concentrating on the community they belong to or one small part of themselves which they cant change, the world would be a much better place. I am very saddened that people cant understand someone who defines himself by WHO he is, not WHAT he is. And why the hell am I still responding? Obviously no one understands where Im coming from, so what point is there…? But thank you for giving me the chance to affirm my beliefs…whether anyone reads my words or understands them, MY reading them is making me even MORE proud of the person I am. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2001, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/139 "2001-02-05T16:48:18Z")
I actually do get where you’re coming from, Deacons. And I happen to agree. I’ve spent a long, fascinating lifetime becoming who I am right now. I’ve worked hard, learned from experience and education, played how I wanted to, and come out of it all a complex individual. I personally don’t identify with being gay in the same way I don’t identify with being right-handed, or brown-eyed. None of these were within my control. They’re not achievements, they’re not experiences, they’re just traits. I am, however, proud of the men whom I have loved, and who have loved me in return. I am proud to have been intimate with some of the greatest guys on the planet. I have fond memories of the times we’ve spent together, and I have all the things I’ve learned from them stored in sacred places in my heart. I am also proud of the work that I have done, the things I’ve achieved, the friends I’ve helped, the strangers I’ve astonished, the effects, in other words, that I’ve had on the world. What I am, what anyone is, doesn’t matter to me. It’s what you’ve done with yourself, how you conduct your affairs, who you care about, what you do and how well you do it, that interests me. Allowing one facet of your life to define you, to put any limits on you, is what I object to. I’ve taken my homosexuality as an opportunity to build myself a life uniquely suited to my needs. As long as I defy social convention by my very nature, I may as well enjoy it. So my life has been strange, and entertaining, and full. If I was at all concerned about defining myself by the genetic/environmental traits I had no control over, the journey wouldn’t have been nearly as much fun. To reiterate… be whatever the hell you want to be. But do so because you really want to. And Deacons, goboy… how YOU doin’? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2001, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912/140 "2001-02-05T20:21:08Z")
**Deacons Trucked** , we understand where you’re coming from, really, but in a sense, you answered your own question. You said: > [@](#): > > But why does my sexuality, my Scotch-Irish ancestry, my agnosticism, or my brown hair have to be so important? I would much rather focus on my extreme passion for music, _the depth of love I have in my heart, the wonderful people I know, my connection with and understanding of the world around me_. If I were straight, black, Filipino, or Christian, I know I would still feel the same. The emphasis is mine to ask you, do you understand that your being gay has affected those things? So, in essence, your sexuality has shaped you into the man you are. Sure, you can’t control it, but that doesn’t mean it’s something that isn’t a part of the things you do, namely, those things that you’re using to define yourself. It is a basic building block upon which you have built your life. If you’re going to be proud of a skyscraper, you have to admire the foundation, too. Esprix [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-another-butch-faggot-bitching-about-femme-guys-i-am-going-to-go-postal/51912.md?page=8)