# If I hear "Communism looks good on paper" One More Time, I'm Gonna Crash My Tractor **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 1, 2002, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617 "2002-05-01T02:26:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Riboflavin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/21 "2002-05-01T07:45:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Big Kahuna Burger \* > He provides no plan for this “dictatorship of the people.” Fortunately, we’ve got plenty of empirical evidence of how this dictatorship of the people works, despite his lack of a plan. It tends to involve killing off trainloads of people, then hanging on to power until either your economy collapses or you move the hell away from communism. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/22 "2002-05-01T10:26:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \* > Men **are** the ideas that they profess and live by. If a man is evil, it is because his ideas are evil. It is impossible to seperate the two. OK, but using that logic to lay the rsponsibility for Stalin’s mass thuggery on Marx’s ideas works equally well to blame Christ for the Spanish Inquisition. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/23 "2002-05-01T10:35:09Z")
\>\> To understand what Marx was really getting at you’d have to understand Hegel. The good thing about capitalism is you don’t need to understand anything. It just works. I don’t believe communism works even if everyone understands Hegel (that’s a language… yes?) But I agree we should have a moratorium on these threads about communism. Very specially those started by posters who can’t make a coherent OP or followup. It all comes down to one thing: If communism requires everybody to believe in it, then it is a long way off because its apostles are not making much headway anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/24 "2002-05-01T18:49:51Z")
goddammit! i go to a nice pit rant and a great discussion breaks out! 😃 * * * “How perfectly goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure!”-- C. Crumb ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/25 "2002-05-01T19:16:11Z")
I agree with you, **even sven** , in theory. In theory…oh, wait. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/26 "2002-05-01T19:20:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > The good thing about capitalism is you don’t need to understand anything. It just works. I don’t believe communism works even if everyone understands Hegel (that’s a language… yes?) > > But I agree we should have a moratorium on these threads about communism. Very specially those started by posters who can’t make a coherent OP or followup. > > It all comes down to one thing: If communism requires everybody to believe in it, then it is a long way off because its apostles are not making much headway anywhere. \*\* Hmmn. Let’s list all of the fallacies inherent in just the first two lines of this post, shall we? > [@](#): > > The good thing about capitalism is you don’t need to understand anything. It just works. Oooh. This one is fun because it fits under so MANY fallacies. Irrelevant conclusion Fallacy of the Undistributed Middle Fallacy of division Cum hoc ergo propter hoc So… it works. How? There is a difference between functioning and working. This, IMHO, is far from a semantic distinction. In a societal context, functioning simply implies something going forward, but not necessarily working. Working, again IMHO, means that the system is behaving as it should, with minimal flaw or deviance. The rest falls under the fallacies I listed above. This quoted argument strikes me as representative of a certain portion of the SDMB which is as attached to capitalism as dalmuti is attached to veganism in the current GD thread. I see little attribution from this segment. Yet, they seem to try and speak the loudest, attempting to wave away any view point that isn’t theirs. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/27 "2002-05-01T22:40:50Z")
> [@](#): > > You are right, and I am sure that Fascism would have been just peachy if it weren’t for that nasty Hitler guy gumming up the works. Ya know, **Muad’Dib** , it’s a shame you don’t have your namesake’s reading comprehension. Just for the record, Sparky, I said nothing about anything being “peachy.” What say you understand before you post, huh? Or are you next going to explain to me how the theory of Marxism is _inherently_ evil? Go on, I’m waiting . . . ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/28 "2002-05-01T23:08:34Z")
It would be nice if we could get Cincinnati FOP supporters to stop saying “I’m boycotting the boycott,” too, but ignorant assess will always resort to cliche in the face of argument. Maybe if we leftists would promise to stop using the word “corporate” in every other sentence, the marketeers would listen. But I doubt it. Smugnorance is a hard jones to kick. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/29 "2002-05-01T23:09:56Z")
It is inherently evil in that it centralizes power in a few hands. People being naturally selfish (sorry, just a fact), the power corrupts. Then you get Stalin, Castro, Pol Pot, etc. I understand the impatience with hearing the same thing over and over, but “I’m tired of it” is no more a refutation than anything to which you object. In my experience, the statement “it doesn’t work in practice” is followed by several examples. Such as: 1. USSR 2. North Korea 3. Hi, Opal! 4. Ethiopia etc. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/30 "2002-05-01T23:19:08Z")
> [@](#): > > It is inherently evil in that it centralizes power in a few hands. Oh, please. Marxism does no such thing. It’s a concept–it _does_ nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Sphinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Sphinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sphinx)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/31 "2002-05-01T23:27:40Z")
You can bandy back-and-forth about the merits of commie theory all you want Even Sven, all I’m concerned about is the actual implementation of that theory. Everywhere – and I mean _everywhere_ – it’s been tried it’s been a total failure! I traveled throughout E. Europe before the Wall came down and what I saw there made me what to bend down and kiss the ground when I set foot on American soil again. Ivory Tower philosophy has no place in the Real World. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/32 "2002-05-01T23:40:13Z")
Well, to be fair, **Sphinx** , the Marxists argue that _Marxism_, or “true” Communism, has never been implemented anywhere. Many of them believe this means their Utopia could still come to pass, no really, it’s just never been tried. Others am thinking only in Bizarro World Marxism can work. And me am one of those. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/33 "2002-05-02T00:47:41Z")
Well, those that want communism will have to do a better job of convincing us, the immense majority, who do not want it. As for now the great majority seems to prefer capitalist hell to communist heaven. Since what we have is capitalism and since we happen to like it better than what you are trying to sell us, it is up to you to do a better job if you want to make a sale. Why would the majority accept the view of a tiny minority without question? I think I can rest easy in the knowledge that I won’t be seeing the Dictatorship of the Proletariat any time soon. And yes, my response to proposals of communism is always the same because the same proposal always gets the same response. To quote Margaret Thatcher: \*\*Of course it’s the same old story. Truth usually is the same old story. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/34 "2002-05-02T01:29:28Z")
Someone please cue the ELP… thank you. Ahem. \*Welcome back my proles to the show that never rolls We’re so glad you’re on the dole Come inside, come inside First behind the glass and they’re real not made of wax Are Mao and Lenin, bet your ass! Now move along, move along Come inside the show’s about to start Ballerinas get to play a part Rest assured you’ll get your moneys worth Once bourgeoise dogs are ridden from the earth! You gotta see the proles, they’re a dynamo You gotta see the proles, they’ll lock and load, Oh! Soon a brand new scene will fall upon our mien And all that we have seen is obscene, is obscene Next one up to stand is our steely iron man And he’s got a five year plan [this section airbrushed out] Line up! Line up! Line up! See the proooooooooles With a blaze of red and their goatees and bald heads They’re COMMIES, and they’re not dead Do not dread, do not dread I would like it known that the exhibits that were shown Were entirely stol’n All was stol’n, all was stol’n [instrumental breakdown along the lines of Stravinsky before he beat town] Come and see the proles! See the proles! See the proles! \* ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/35 "2002-05-02T02:59:47Z")
. . . actually, I think I like that better than the original. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/36 "2002-05-02T03:50:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > **Why would the majority accept the view of a tiny minority without question?** Oh, the irony! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/37 "2002-05-02T03:55:42Z")
Come to think about it. . . I’ve never seen a tractor crash . . . it must be quite a spectacle. . . Yeah, I think I’d like to see a tractor crash . . . You know what? Communism looks good on paper! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/38 "2002-05-02T04:15:38Z")
Dammit **Sailor**! My brand new shiny red paint job is ruined! The peoples’ petrol has burst in to flames! Now what am I going to farm lentils with? ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/39 "2002-05-02T05:01:15Z")
Heck, it doesn’t even look good on paper, it is quaint as an oversimplied idea of helping and sharing. In practice, or even trying to work out the details (on paper or where the hell ever) it runs into reality, and doesn’t come out looking at all just. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617/40 "2002-05-02T05:45:50Z")
Yeah, it looked better before the crash but we had some fun didn’t we? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-hear-communism-looks-good-on-paper-one-more-time-im-gonna-crash-my-tractor/106617.md?page=3)