If I kick an alligator* in it's nuts...

[Hari_Seldon]

@Colibri

Alligators don’t have “nuts,” if what you mean by this are external testes like mammals. The testes are contained within the body cavity, and not exposed.

The reason that most mammals carry their testes in an external scrotum is because spermatogenesis requires a body temperature a couple of degrees below the core body temperature of most mammals. Having them in an external pouch allows their temperature to be adjusted by how close they are held to the body.

Reptiles and amphibians are “cold blooded,” and their core body temperature is often below that of mammals, so spermatogenesis is not not inhibited. They don’t need to expose their testes outside the body.

Birds, which are warm-blooded like mammals, have a different strategy and are able to carry out spermatogenesis at their core body temperature, which is even higher than that of mammals.

I don’t doubt your facts, but reading your post made me wonder why this is so. We certainly pay a significant prince in having external testes. Clearly evolution could instead have pushed the spermatogenesis temperature higher and didn’t. Is there any known selective advantage in our arrangement.

[Colibri]

@Hari_Seldon

I don’t doubt your facts, but reading your post made me wonder why this is so. We certainly pay a significant prince in having external testes. Clearly evolution could instead have pushed the spermatogenesis temperature higher and didn’t. Is there any known selective advantage in our arrangement.

Actually, it’s a bit of a mystery. Clearly birds and even some mammals are capable of carrying out spermatogenesis at elevated temperatures or otherwise dealing with a high body temperature. Per the link in my first post, the earliest mammals seem to have had external testes. We don’t know why they hit on this “solution” rather than that of birds.

[Machine_Elf]

@Hari_Seldon

I don’t doubt your facts, but reading your post made me wonder why this is so. We certainly pay a significant prince in having external testes.

Do we? We mammals seem to be surviving and reproducing just fine. Lots of things cause us pain, but that pain doesn’t keep us from propagating the species. A few unfortunate individuals here and there may lose the ability to pass on their genes due to debilitating testicular injuries that might have been avoided by internalization, but the existing design has been shown, over thousands of years and billions of trials, to be generally adequate for survival of the species.

@Hari_Seldon

Clearly evolution could instead have pushed the spermatogenesis temperature higher and didn’t.

This assumes that a mutation did in fact arise at some time in the past that allowed for effective spermatogenesis with internalized testes, and that natural selection eliminated the bearer of that mutation. I think these are unwarranted assumptions. With a conscious analytical mind we can surely think of innumerable ways in which the human body could be better (and indeed, we have), but it should not be taken as axiomatic that the current form of a species is the absolute best adaptation that evolution could ever possibly deliver.

[A_Dodgy_Dude]

@2Bits

“Its” nuts. (Dammit!)

Well, to be fair, it’s nuts to kick an alligator in its nuts.

[Eyebrows_0f_Doom]

@Annie-Xmas

I once had an unleashed dog stand up and put its paws on my shoulders. I slammed my knee into his testicles, and the dog went down, crying in pain.

Do you think this is a story that makes you sound good?

[Rocketeer]

It’s just data, dude.

[Annie-Xmas]

@Eyebrows_0f_Doom

Do you think this is a story that makes you sound good?

No, but the dog had no right to be putting its paws on me, and I had every right to defend myself. I had no idea what the dog’s next move would be. The dog was as big as me, and probably weighed more.

[Chronos]

That’s just the way evolution works. It doesn’t always pick out the best solution possible. It just picks out the best solution among those that, by random chance, happened to arise by mutation. And not even always that: It’s possible that some proto-mammal did indeed have a mutation that enabled high-temperature spermatogenesis, but just happened (for reasons completely unrelated to its gonads) to get eaten, or catch a disease, or whatever before it had a chance to reproduce.

[Dag_Otto]

@Hari_Seldon

We certainly pay a significant prince in having external testes.

@Machine_Elf

Do we?

Paying a Royalty for the family jewels?

[Colibri]

@Eyebrows_0f_Doom

Do you think this is a story that makes you sound good?

Moderator Note

This is not an appropriate remark for GQ. If you want to comment on it, please take it to an appropriate forum.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[Kimstu]

@Annie-Xmas

No, but the dog had no right to be putting its paws on me, and I had every right to defend myself. I had no idea what the dog’s next move would be. The dog was as big as me, and probably weighed more.

Yeah, I personally adore dogs, even the big ones who jump up, but if a big dog is all over you without any encouragement and you’re genuinely scared it might be aggressive, striking it in the nuts (if any) is a defensible defensive strategy. Anyway, as a data point about the vulnerability to testicular trauma pain of male mammals with external testicles, ISTM it’s totally germane to this thread.

[Colibri]

@Kimstu

Yeah, I personally adore dogs, even the big ones who jump up, but if a big dog is all over you without any encouragement and you’re genuinely scared it might be aggressive, striking it in the nuts (if any) is a defensible defensive strategy. Anyway, as a data point about the vulnerability to testicular trauma pain of male mammals with external testicles, ISTM it’s totally germane to this thread.

Moderator Note

Germane or not, let’s not continue discussion of this particular anecdote.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator