# If I killed Osama bin Laden **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 24, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494 "2011-02-24T20:16:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/1 "2011-02-24T20:16:26Z")
Lets say I spot Osama in New York and shoot him in a restaurant with lots of witnesses. Since it all happened on American soil, would this be regarded as a felony? What would be the punishment? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/2 "2011-02-24T20:18:21Z")
Why wouldn’t it be? Does America no longer classify murder as a felony? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/3 "2011-02-24T20:22:07Z")
You, as a private citizen, kill someone you \*believe \*to be wanted by our government in front of witnesses, and you ask if it would be a felony? I presume the punishment would be decided by the judge at the trial. ---
**Author:** ![Aestivalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Aestivalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aestivalis)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/4 "2011-02-24T20:24:52Z")
Well, there is a price on his head, technically for information leading to his apprehension or conviction. By shooting him dead we cannot either convict or apprehend him (the FBI notice does not state dead or alive) so you wouldn’t get any kind of immunity. The most you should do is what any bounty hunter would do to capture a subject. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/5 "2011-02-24T20:28:24Z")
You would likely go to trial for murder, but I can’t imagine any American jury convicting you. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/6 "2011-02-24T21:14:51Z")
I checked; the [wanted poster](http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/usama-bin-laden/view) doesn’t say “dead or alive.” ---
**Author:** ![beartato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@beartato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beartato)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/7 "2011-02-24T21:23:27Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > You would likely go to trial for murder, but I can’t imagine any American jury convicting you. The only legal systems I know about are the Canadian and British ones, and that’s precious little. So I do ask this genuinely: I believe the OP is setting up a scenario where guilt is easily shown. He mentions witnesses, and being in a public place. Now, if there are a dozen witnesses willing to testify to his guilt, and the security cameras have footage of the shooting, and ballistics matches the bullet the kills the victim to the one that **scamartistry** is holding when arrested… can the jury come back with a non-guilty verdict? Does the judge have to accept that? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/8 "2011-02-24T21:27:25Z")
> [@beartato](#): > > The only legal systems I know about are the Canadian and British ones, and that’s precious little. So I do ask this genuinely: > > I believe the OP is setting up a scenario where guilt is easily shown. He mentions witnesses, and being in a public place. Now, if there are a dozen witnesses willing to testify to his guilt, and the security cameras have footage of the shooting, and ballistics matches the bullet the kills the victim to the one that **scamartistry** is holding when arrested… can the jury come back with a non-guilty verdict? Does the judge have to accept that? Yes. See Jury Nullification - [Jury nullification - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification) [QUOTE=Wikipedia] Jury nullification occurs in a trial when a jury reaches a verdict contrary to the weight of the evidence and contrary to the letter of the law (an official rule, and especially a legislative enactment)… [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/9 "2011-02-24T21:29:25Z")
> [@beartato](#): > > The only legal systems I know about are the Canadian and British ones, and that’s precious little. So I do ask this genuinely: > > I believe the OP is setting up a scenario where guilt is easily shown. He mentions witnesses, and being in a public place. Now, if there are a dozen witnesses willing to testify to his guilt, and the security cameras have footage of the shooting, and ballistics matches the bullet the kills the victim to the one that **scamartistry** is holding when arrested… can the jury come back with a non-guilty verdict? Does the judge have to accept that? The jury’s right to acquittal is absolute. A not-guilty verdict can not be rejected by a judge. A guilty verdict can be voided by a judge in certain circumstances, usually if he feels the trial was flawed in some way. That said, I have a bit more faith in American juries than **Regallag\_The\_Axe** does. I don’t see many of them tolerating a clear murder in broad daylight, even if it is Osama. People have been convicted for assassinating far lesser villains. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/10 "2011-02-24T21:30:55Z")
If all else fails, I’m sure whoever the president is at the time would realize it’d be political suicide not to pardon the shooter. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/11 "2011-02-24T21:34:24Z")
So when this goes to court, would the judge keep the victim, Osama, anonymous? ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/12 "2011-02-24T21:44:07Z")
I asked a similar question a few years ago, and apparently murdering Bin Laden would make you very unpopular. [Bin Laden Hypothetical](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=490143) ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/13 "2011-02-24T21:47:00Z")
**scamartistry** , the FBI wanted posters advises you: > [@](#): > > If you have any information concerning this person, please contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or Consulate. In a pinch, I don’t think anyone would complain if you called 911 and told them you were staring at Bin Laden and they needed to apprehend him immediately. However, you are suggesting that you approach someone you _believe_ to be Bin Laden, based purely on some visual observation, and shoot him dead without any provocation, or confirmation of his identity? Let’s change it to the guy stands up and proclaims “I am Bin Laden!”, but is unarmed and just standing there, and you shoot him dead. In either case, you are guilty of murder, regardless of any prior acts by Bin Laden. You would only be excused legally from murder if he made some extant threat to you are people in the area, such as brandishing a weapon or a bomb. Would the DA attempt to prosecute, or would he try to negotiate a plea bargain, or would he decide to drop charges? Would likely depend more on his assessment of public sentiment and his desire to send a message about vigilanteism. Would the jury convict? If it can be shown to be Bin Laden, highly unlikely given the circumstances of who he is. Juries have the right of nullification, even if courts frown on it. They can decide that this instance is justified and decide that whatever the law says, they aren’t convinced the circumstances of this case specifically meet the intent of the law, and return Not Guilty anyway, even in the face of witnesses, physical evidence like video, gun ownership, ballistics, etc. The one thing I’m not certain about is if the judge is compelled to accept their verdict, or is able to set it aside or otherwise reject it based upon the merits of the testimony. Assuming that the DA decided to prosecute, the jury followed instructions and evalutated the evidence on the merits against the laws as written and didn’t take into account who Bin Laden was, then yes you could be convicted of murder, and punished according to the laws of that jurisdiction just like any other convicted murderer. Those are some big ifs. **tr0psn4j** said: > [@](#): > > So when this goes to court, would the judge keep the victim, Osama, anonymous? I don’t see how, it goes to motive. “Why did you kill this stranger in broad daylight, in front of witnesses?” " Because he was the notorious terrorist and villain Osama Bin Laden." **friedo** said: > [@](#): > > The jury’s right to acquittal is absolute. A not-guilty verdict can not be rejected by a judge. That’s what I thought. > [@](#): > > People have been convicted for assassinating far lesser villains. But that’s hardly the point, because they are _lesser_ villains. The question is if we reach a point where the notoriousness and vileness of the victim is sufficient to outweigh, in the people’s minds, the legality of the act. Just because one notorious villain does not reach that standard does not mean some greater villain might not. “I’m Hitler.” _bang_ “Hey, you can’t shoot him!” “But it was _Hitler_?!” (Okay, he’s already dead. Notoriousness was needed.) ---
**Author:** ![beartato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@beartato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beartato)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/14 "2011-02-24T21:48:51Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Yes. See Jury Nullification [QUOTE=friedo] The jury’s right to acquittal is absolute. A not-guilty verdict can not be rejected by a judge. A guilty verdict can be voided by a judge in certain circumstances, usually if he feels the trial was flawed in some way. [/QUOTE] Yes, see, these were the two answers I kept finding when trying to look it up. You can understand my confusion. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/15 "2011-02-24T21:50:59Z")
IDK but that scenario just made me LMAO. . . Can you imagine someone in Mahattan going “there’s Bin Laden!” and pulling out a gun and shotting. . . Can you imagine Bin Laden having lunch downtown. . . I bet he’s having the chicken salad on rye. . . ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/16 "2011-02-24T21:51:32Z")
Bin Laden was comin’ right at you when you shot him, wasn’t he? Think hard before you answer. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/17 "2011-02-24T21:56:24Z")
**sciurophobic** , I think there is a slight difference between the scenario described in this thread, where Bin Laden is roaming free and the citizen takes apprehension upon himself in the most direct way possible, and the scenario from your thread, where apprehension is completed, and then someone takes punishment upon himself while Bin Laden is already in custody. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/18 "2011-02-24T22:17:40Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > Lets say I spot Osama in New York and shoot him in a restaurant with lots of witnesses. How much did he tip? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/19 "2011-02-24T22:35:16Z")
Would the situation be different if a French resistance fighter poisoned a Nazi who was eating dinner at a Paris restaurant? Why, or why not? Are we at war, or not? ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494/20 "2011-02-24T22:35:44Z")
The FBI doesn’t really have much to do with this, apart from advertising his mug. The State Dept. funds a $25mil bounty “pot” to finance leads or actors in his “capture or death.” Of course you would be arrested and detained until the details were sorted out, but assuming you kept your mouth shut, a good lawyer with the right connections will have Federal law trumping any possible state murder charges. You go free and the mayor gives you the key to city. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-killed-osama-bin-laden/572494.md?page=2)