# If I like the political scheming aspect of fantasy more than the dragons and magic, I might like \_\_\_ **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 25, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705 "2017-11-25T21:47:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/21 "2017-11-26T03:19:07Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The OP made me think of [Katherine Kurtz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Kurtz), but I only know her by reputation, never having actually read any of her books, so I don’t know whether she fits or not. She fits 100%. It’s all medieval politics from top to bottom. The magic in the stories is completely intertwined with medieval religion. It’s unclear if those that can practice get their powers through ESP or from a god. Or both. I’m speaking specifically of he Deryni books. I would recommend reading them in the order they were written rather than in chornological order. Specifically the first two trilogies. Kind of like watching Episodes 1-3 of Star Wars first. Those 6 are the best of her works. In my opinion she is the most enjoyable out of all of them. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/22 "2017-11-26T03:39:08Z")
China Mieville’s “Bas-Lag” novels use politics as a major component of their world-building. (Also, political oppression and resistance are major themes.) > **[Bas-Lag | Politics and society](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bas-Lag#Politics_and_society)** > > Ragamoll is the common tongue of New Crobuzon. It seems to be widely spoken throughout eastern Bas-Lag by members of all races. Likewise, Salt is the language of the Swollen Ocean, spoken by pirates, sailors and other maritime peoples. In The Scar, Salt is described as a patchwork language which borrows aspects from various other tongues, principally Ragamoll. > The anophelii maintain a written language called High Kettai, which is used by various scholars and publishing houses. It is implied tha... ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/23 "2017-11-26T03:51:36Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > It mustn’t. While I started the thread because I’m looking for stories and dramatization, I like straight up history too. Gibbon has been on my “when I get around to it” list. I’ve added him to my library queue. Any particular WotR book you recommend? Post War of the Roses but would strongly recommend Hilary Mantel’s Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies; they’re set in Henry VIII’s reign and are all about the politics of power. ---
**Author:** ![Lickety\_Split\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/67e7ee/32.png) [@Lickety\_Split\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lickety_Split_1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/24 "2017-11-26T03:59:11Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I enjoy fantasy books, or perhaps the idea of them more than actually reading them. I’ve found that often it’s the medieval scheming that I enjoy over wizard battles. I suspect there may be some historical fiction or specific fantasy authors I should investigate. Got anything I should check out? Well, of course there is always George RR Martin’s “_Song of Fire and Ice_” trilogy. Which as we all know launched the insanely popular–and good!–HBO TV series \*Game of Thrones. \* And you might try Jim Butcher’s "_Furies"_ series. Good fantasy there, and lots of power plays and scheming between warring factions. (Butcher is most famous, however, for his _Harry Dresden_ series. The guy who is a modern-day wizard in Chicago? There’s about 20 of those novels out. Anything by Robin Hobb is good fantasy “swords and sandals” stuff. Replete with dragons! In many ways her stuff is similar to GOT, I always thought. Though decidedly not nearly as dark or violent. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/25 "2017-11-26T04:58:18Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The OP made me think of [Katherine Kurtz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Kurtz), but I only know her by reputation, never having actually read any of her books, so I don’t know whether she fits or not. I came in specifically to mention her. The Deryni novels abound with politics and scheming. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/26 "2017-11-26T07:12:40Z")
The Foundation series by Asimov. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/27 "2017-11-26T08:10:03Z")
I’ve only read the first so far, but [The Powder Mage Trilogy](https://www.amazon.com/Promise-Blood-Powder-Mage-Trilogy/dp/0316219045/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511682001&sr=8-1&keywords=the+powder+mage) seems like it might be up your alley. That Amazon synopsis is a bit badly edited, but the actual book is written competently. Now, if you _want_ [weird and badly written](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nuL318Mx2w&feature=share)… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/28 "2017-11-26T13:06:25Z")
> [@Lickety\_Split](#): > > And you might try Jim Butcher’s "_Furies"_ series. Good fantasy there, and lots of power plays and scheming between warring factions. Hmm…they might qualify, but IMO they’re not very good. Don’t get me wrong, I read every one of them, because I’m a goober, and they passed the time admirably; but I’d only recommend them for a turn-off-your-brain read. > [@snoe](#): > > China Mieville’s “Bas-Lag” novels use politics as a major component of their world-building. (Also, political oppression and resistance are major themes.) > > [Bas-Lag - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bas-Lag#Politics_and_society) These, on the other hand, are kick-ass books where you don’t have the option of turning your brain off: they’re dense and enjoyable as hell. **Perdido Street Station** , the first in the trilogy, is one of my all-time favorite novels. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/29 "2017-11-26T13:32:16Z")
I agree that Mieville’s books are excellently written, but I didn’t find them very fun to read. The author comes across as a very… angry person. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/30 "2017-11-26T13:44:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I agree that Mieville’s books are excellently written, but I didn’t find them very fun to read. The author comes across as a very… angry person. He’s a punk socialist/anarchist. I think “angry person” is a fair description :). [Author photo.](https://www.panmacmillan.com/getmedia/5bd72a83-2445-42ba-a60e-0b0de367ee5a/author-photo-china-to-use1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/31 "2017-11-26T14:55:17Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The OP made me think of [Katherine Kurtz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Kurtz), but I only know her by reputation, never having actually read any of her books, so I don’t know whether she fits or not. > > I’m watching this thread for what to avoid (or at least, what to know what I’m getting myself in for), since I’m _not_ a big fan or politics and scheming and intrigue and struggles for power. I was about to comment that the incest vibe turned me off, but that was Kerr, not Kurtz. Turns out I DNFed the only Kurtz book I’ve tried to read. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/32 "2017-11-26T18:13:30Z")
Is it specifically political scheming that you’re looking for, or scheming in general? Glen Cook’s **The Black Company** series centres on a mercanary company hired to fight in a war by a powerful sorceress. The thing is, on both sides of the conflict are magic users who badly outclass the Black Company, who are mostly mundane soldiers with a handful of low-level wizards thrown in. Much of the book revolves around the Black Company dreaming up dirty tricks to screw over their latest overpowered foe, because in anything resembling a fair fight they’d get wiped. In other words, it’s about a bunch of red-shirts fighting in a war featuring great heroes and terrible villains, with the red-shirts doing whatever it takes to survive. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/33 "2017-11-26T20:44:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > _Tigana, A Song for Arbonne, the Lions of Al-Rassan_ and the _Sarantine Mosaic_ duology by Guy Gavriel Kay are excellent books with minimal magic (especially Arbonne and Al-Rassan) and lots of political scheming. > > Avoid his other works. I love Kay. Tigana always makes me cry. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/34 "2017-11-26T20:47:40Z")
> [@](#): > > The Goblin Emperor was nominated for Hugo and Nebula, and is all about politics in a fantasy kingdom. I \*\*\*highly \*\*\*recommend this book. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/35 "2017-11-26T21:00:18Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I \*\*\*highly \*\*\*recommend this book. Agreed! My only complaint was the length of the names caused me some issues. But that might just have been me. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/36 "2017-11-26T22:00:30Z")
Colleen McCollough’s Masters of Rome series was good. Just scheming and war and politics in the late republic era. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/37 "2017-11-26T22:31:49Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Tigana always makes me cry. Me too. Hence my username. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/38 "2017-11-27T01:00:12Z")
I recommend _The Curse of Chalion_ by Lois McMaster Bujold. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/39 "2017-11-27T02:45:18Z")
You won’t find them in the Fantasy section of the bookstore or library, but Watership Down scribe Richard Adams, when not writing about rabbits or other animals, wrote two low-fantasy (invented pre-medieval world, some mysticism, but not magic, monsters, or non-humans) novels called Maya and Shardik. Other than being set in the same place, there is no connection between the novels, but they are both about a person in a low position ( a slave girl, and solitary hunter) ended up becoming people of power and influence. Full of politics and scheming. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705/40 "2017-11-27T03:01:57Z")
Huh I wasn’t aware of a single one of his other works. Good to know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-like-the-political-scheming-aspect-of-fantasy-more-than-the-dragons-and-magic-i-might-like-___/802705.md?page=3)