# If I pray for faith and it doesn't come... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2002, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835 "2002-04-04T18:58:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/21 "2002-04-07T21:49:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scupper \* > \*\* > > I’ve prayed a lot lately. > > I’ve even prayed for God, if He’s out there, to give me a little faith or inspiration, but that hasn’t happened. > > I’m not sure I believe there’s anybody listening. > > \*\* **Scupper** - I just wanted you to know that I am praying for **you**. My prayer is that God will reveal himself to you. As you are looking and listening and waiting for answers to your prayers, God is there with you. He only comes to those who seek him and open the doors of their hearts to hear his voice. Keep on believing and God will reveal what _you_ need to see so you may understand whatever it is that keeps you from believing. Romans 10:17 says - “Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.” If you are truly seeking the God of the Bible you need to read, listen, and talk to other believers. Find out how and why they have faith and what it takes to believe in the unseen. Open your heart - believe and you will see the truth. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/22 "2002-04-07T23:38:28Z")
To start this off with: I am not a Christian. I feel compelled to note this in such debates, as my username can be misleading. Be that as it may, your qualms somewhat remind me of those of Boethius in his _Consolation of Philosophy_. The basic precept behind the book is that all fortune, good or bad, that is given to an individual is meant to enhance that individual’s growth as a person. Boethius was basically put into prison on unjust precepts, and was eventually tortured and killed. He reasoned that, basically, we cannot know what God has in store for us, and that misfortune can actually be a reward in that it can make us better people. At least, that’s what I got from it. At any rate, if there is a God, maybe he honestly thinks that right now isn’t the right time for you to find faith. Some people do horrible things with faith; look at Fred Phelps. Others might just try to have God find all the answers for them. Maybe your lack-of-a-answer-to-your-prayer will inspire you to go to other, more long-lasting means, means that will allow you to grow as a person. Means rooted in this world. Then, perhaps, if he’s there, he’ll help you find your faith. Maybe not. But the important thing is that you grow as a person, and that you take the steps necessary to make your life and your soul healthier. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/23 "2002-04-08T01:43:37Z")
Drat! All the good points have been taken already! I’ll just have to recycle. To **Scupper** : Consider this: Prayer may well be a placebo in your case. If it helps you, by all means, wear your knees out. On the other hand, don’t forego secular means of help. This may bring up what I see as a conflict of interest: If your marriage is in trouble, and given that God could help you out in any number of ways, but hasen’t, isn’t trying to save your marriage against the will of God. Predicted response: No! God wants me to struggle to learn about love, or somesuch nonsense. My preemptive rebuttal: Why doesn’t God just tell you, in a cloud-parting, Monty-Python-esque style, rather than giving ammunition to us atheists about the lack of prayer’s effectiveness? A final point to consider about prayer that has been raised but bears repeating: According to virtually every religion, all other religions range from lies to demonic temptations. Just the same, don’t go praying to Cthulu. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/24 "2002-04-08T03:14:46Z")
I pray every day that adults will stop believing in fairy tales. my prayers have not yet been answered. ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/25 "2002-04-08T03:46:39Z")
You trying to tell me that the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus are not real? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![neisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4bbf92/32.png) [@neisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neisha)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/26 "2002-04-08T05:32:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beastal \* > \*\* > > But God is omnipotent. Why would I need to pray that things turn out the way He wants them? \*\* It takes faith and trust to sincerely pray that things will develope the way HE wants them to. ---
**Author:** ![Beastal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Beastal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastal)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2002, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/27 "2002-04-08T11:05:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neisha \* > \*\* > > It takes faith and trust to sincerely pray that things will develope the way HE wants them to. \*\* But your religion tells us that the Big Cheese[sup]TM[/sup] is omnipotent. Prayer or no prayer, things **will** turn out the way He wants them. My prayer will not alter His intended outcome. ---
**Author:** ![SuziQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5fc32e/32.png) [@SuziQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuziQ)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2002, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/28 "2002-04-13T20:42:55Z")
Please stop refering to God as “He” It is offensive to all. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neisha \* > \*\*And He wants to come to know His love for you. He also wants to trust in Him and realize your life will never to content until you and He have a relationship and you turn all your worries over to Him. Instead of praying for how YOU want things to be, pray that things will go the way HE wants them to be because HE knows what it is your life craves and is willing to fed that craving if you will ask and allow Him to do so. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2002, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/29 "2002-04-13T22:34:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuziQ \* > \*\*Please stop refering to God as “He” > It is offensive to all. > \*\* It’s not offensive to me, in fact it’s not offensive to HIM either 😃 ---
**Author:** ![neisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4bbf92/32.png) [@neisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neisha)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/30 "2002-04-14T00:51:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuziQ \* > \*\*Please stop refering to God as “He” > It is offensive to all. > \*\* I’m sorry I’ve offended you, Suzy Q. What would you suggest I call \*\*\* instead of \*\*? ---
**Author:** ![SuziQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5fc32e/32.png) [@SuziQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuziQ)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/31 "2002-04-14T01:01:35Z")
Our “Creator” will do fine. Thank You. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuziQ \* > \*\*Please stop refering to God as “He” > It is offensive to all. > \*\* ---
**Author:** ![kweekway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@kweekway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kweekway)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/32 "2002-04-14T05:04:20Z")
So, let’s say your prayers are answered, your daughter is healthy, your marriage is fine, the bills are paid, you have your health, then what? You don’t have anything else to pray for right? At least nothing that affects you. God knows that by our nature we usually only seek or need Him in difficult times. As long as everything is comfortable we would just as soon not be bothered. Do you believe that this is all there is, that this is as good as it gets? I’m not trying to tell you what to believe, just wondering how someone could settle the question in their mind that this is all there is. Why then, have people been drawn to believe in one or many forms of gods or idols since creation? Why then does the entire world worship some form of higher being? Wouldn’t this be considered a universal desire? Just think about it. Since the beginning there has never been a period when man did not feel he HAD to worship, pay tribute, sacrifice, consecrate, etc. to a higher being. Sure you could say that there have been opportunist who forced people to profess a belief in something for their own gain, but overall people of their own free will have behaved this way. Are athiests really athiests? Do they just simply not believe there is a God? Or, would they be happy if no one believed in God, meaning that they would find pleasure in offending a being that they do not believe in? I would wager that most athiests, if they were honest, would be thrilled if no one believed in God. If this were the case, you couldn’t label them athiests. I am not just being defensive of my religion here, but sincerely cuious. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835/33 "2002-04-14T22:40:42Z")
Faith is belief unsupported by evidence perceptible to another observer. You can have faith that a god communicates with you, but you can’t prove it to anyone else. If this were possible, the ‘Does God exist’ debate would have ceased to be one a long time ago. A few things follow from this. One is that believers who are pleased to announce that their god does communicate with them and that they ‘know’ it are asserting a nonsense. This type of ‘communication’ is, by its very nature, intrinsically indistinguishable from imagination or self-delusion. All they can know is that either (a) their god communicates with them in a manner which is factually and inherently indistinguishable from imaginary ‘voices in the head’ or the kind of wishful self-delusion which leads to ‘imaginary friends’ or (b) they are in the grip of a self-delusion. It also follows that to pray for faith is at least a little inconsistent, since prayer itself is usually an act **of** faith and based \*\*on]/b] faith, predicated on the belief that there is something to pray to. The typical response to this is to suggest that one is praying exploratively, to see IF there’s anything out there. Well, that’s a problem, because people have made up lots of different gods, who all need to be prayed to in different ways, and who all have different rules for living your life. So you’re going to have to make a lot of different explorations before you cover all the options. And by the way, praying to god A is sometimes going to really annoy god B. A funny thing about most gods is they usually offer some sort of code about tolerance while at the same time laying down very _intolerant_ rules like “Thou shalt worship no other Gods but me!”. It’s just one of the silly little hangups gods tend to have, along with all their neurotic and baseless or outmoded rules about food and sex. It also follows that if you pray for faith, you can never know if your prayers have been answered or not. At most, all you can do is achieve the same kind of status as the people I described in my 2nd paragraph. “Hi, either God talks to me or I’m self-delusional, and it is factually impossible for to ever know which!”. Not my choice, but whatever floats your boat… Personally, I find I can get by just fine without imaginary voices and big invisible friends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-i-pray-for-faith-and-it-doesnt-come/101835.md?page=1)